Mangrove Jack's US West Coast Ale yeast M44 experience?

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SaguaroMan

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Ortho-Chlorophenol - "An off flavor and a phenolic compound. With a taste akin to Band-aids or bearing a medicinal quality, Ortho-Chlorophenol may appear from bacteria, but also from chlorinated water or sanitizers."

If you can discount the latter in your process, sounds like a bacterial infection. You also killed off roughly half your yeast in the process of pitching directly on the wort. I know a lot of brewers pitch dry yeast like this and make good enough beer this way but it's not exactly the best form for pitching a healthy, viable yeast count.
 

jefnvk

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If you can discount the latter in your process, sounds like a bacterial infection. You also killed off roughly half your yeast in the process of pitching directly on the wort. I know a lot of brewers pitch dry yeast like this and make good enough beer this way but it's not exactly the best form for pitching a healthy, viable yeast count.
Not sure that I can discount anything, I'm befuddled over this. I've done three batches lately, the Maibock ale with MJ M44, an English Mild with S04, and a honey wheat porter with MJ Bavarian Wheat, in that order, all in different fermenters with the same water source. The English Mild came out fine. The honey wheat with MJ is giving that same off-flavor (although nowhere near as pronounced, but still noticeable), which I've read can also be caused by the stress of underpitching. I'm more likely to believe that MJ doesn't take well to direct pitching, over me having an infection for the first time ever in two separate fermenters that just so happen to be the first batches I've done with this yeast. At the same time I'm really not willing to buy the yeast again (their datasheets say it's not advisable to harvest their yeast) to give it another shot with rehydration.
 

WSJ

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I rehydrated the yeast, had 3 packs for about 45 l and this is enough.
Slow start, not so vigorous fermentation and result is not good.

I tasted the beer today. It has this subtle but annoying taste on the background I have felt before in other brewers beers at our monthly home-brewer meetings and they have used MJ yeast.
Interesting, where did all the malty goodness of Maris Otter go?
Hops are there and well an nothing annoying on the nose.
Except this slight taste I have hard time describing.

I am going to let it sit for another week and see, will this go away. If not, my half of of this 45 l is going down the drain. :)

Cheers!
 

vwmasstransit

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So 35 days after pitching M44 I bottled my 1.089 OG American Honey that FG 1.008. Tasting notes are AWESOME! Very clean complex. It has slight toffee and coffee. Honey is nice a subtle mouth feel is a little dry as you'd expect from the FG. So far I'm very impressed with this yeast in leu of the delayed start. I'll let you know in another month or so how they turn out fully carbed.

66 days since brewing and this beer is amazing!
 

jmole

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So the split batch I described above (US-05/M44) came into maturity and I was able to sample these side by side. It wasn't even close, US-05 produced a far superior brew on just about all accounts. I got the same level attenuation on both, but the M44 just tastes muddy next to the super clean US-05.

I won't use M44 again, but was a fun trial. Got some harvested Bell's on the agenda this week...should be a fun compare!

Justin
 

vwmasstransit

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I have not used US-05 yet but I really like the M44. I've done my second beer with it now and it was a cream ale.

Batch size was 8.5 gallons

11lbs 2 row
2lbs flaked corn
2lbs flaked rice

1oz liberty @ 60
1oz liberty @ 20
1oz crystal @ 2
Abv came out to 5.8% because it was supposed to be a 10 gallon but I came up short as it was the first I have done with that many gallons.

2 weeks primary and 1 week bottle. Man its good, still needs a little more time to clear/condition but it has very nice citrus/lemony flavor. Very smooth and just a great session beer. Great flavor and drinkability.
 

modifier

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I've got this pale american rye fermenting with M44 right now.
I pitched it into a half quart yeast bottle with about 6oz of boiled tap water and 2oz of boiled wort collected before first hop addition. Temperature of liquid was 75F.
Pitched this liquid into fermenter after about 30 minutes which was right after wort aeration.
Got fair amount of activity going on after 12 hours temperature being ~64F, so nothing to complain about here!
Will try to remember to post after bottling/carbing.
 

modifier

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Had beautiful dense cake on the bottom of fermenter so no problems racking.
Carbing up nicely, faster than S04. Also the yeast tasted good from the fermenter as it is tasting with the rye! Am trying it out the second time next monday for a fruity APA, that'll be the true test.
 
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modifier

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Made a hoppy apa and in a week it dropped down to 1.006, 88%AA! YIKES!
And this happened in 15-14°C ambient temperature.
 

vgnchj

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Anyone have any experience with this yeast? It sounds pretty awesome, like a better version of s-04 in the ester department, but I'm wondering if that is legit.
 

DrummoRC

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I used M44 this past weekend for the first time. I did a batch of Pale Ale to try it out. I got this yeast at the AHA conference in Baltimore. So anyway I never used it but I see all the references to slow starts! I chilled my wort to about 60 degrees F and aerated it before pitching (direct into wort) 2 packets of M44. My batch was bubbling in 16 hrs.

Looking forward to seeing how it turns out!

Crap old thread! oh well
 

alexnova

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Yaay for old threads!

I too got a packet at HomebrewCon and used it to make a fairly pedestrian amber which I'll turn into a pumpkin-pie-spice beer. Pitched dry onto 77F wort (I know, too warm) and there's a bit of airlock activity after 9 hours.
 

DrummoRC

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The beers that I have brewed with the Mangrove Jack yeasts have turned out pretty good!

So far I have used the M44 in three batches. Fluctuation is good - attenuation is also good . Is it better then US-05 for a dry yeast ... not sure - pretty similar results.

I have also used M15 Empire Ale yeast from MJ. I really like this one. I made kind of a Wee Heavy take off. Very nice OG 1.062 - FG 1.005 = 7.5%

This fall I will try the Cider yeast I got from the conference.

Over all I am happy with the quality of the Mangrove Jack yeast! will have to ask the LHBS to start carrying it!
 

biochemedic

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Know this is an old thread, but just wanted to add to the M44 experience. I purchased a pack on a whim a couple months ago, and just used it on a simple APA (OG 1.060). I rehydrated the yeast per the best instructions I could find -- after some Googling and searching on the Mangrove Jack's website, the only rehydration recommendations for this yeast were from the Rebel Brewer Page for the yeast. Unless I just missed it, I couldn't find any data sheets on the manufacturer site.

Oh, and FWIW, I wanted to mention that there's also another HBT thread on this yeast...

I did get a little slower of a start than what I typically get from US-05, but I actually had a separate fermentation (using US05) with a similar gravity brew that I pitched only an hour or so after the M44, and they nearly started at the same time...was getting some early lace and bubbles with the US05 about 22 hrs after pitching. Just a few hrs later now, and there is a quarter to half inch of krausen on both brews (29 hrs after pitching for the M44).

Here are some additional variables: I do use GoFerm when I rehydrate dry yeast. I start my fermentations low (around 60-62*F) and then allow them to ramp up on their own...the ambient temp in my basement right now is 66*F. That definitely slows down the start on some yeast. However, the M44 was a touch warmer (closer to 62*F) at the start c/w the US05 (closer to 60*F). I suspect that if the temps were to have been exactly equal, it would've only slowed down active krausen by an hour or two on the M44.

Overall, the fact that everyone complains about the slow start reminds me of BRY-97. I've used that yeast a bunch, and yes, it can sometimes take a day, even 2 perhaps, to show active signs of fermentation. However, I've never had a bad outcome from BRY-97, and I suspect I will be pleased with M44 as well. I'll try to remember to update when this beer finishes...
 

JKaranka

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I've used it several times and it's really reliable. It takes a day or two to start but I think I've made three beers with it and they've all come out clean and well attenuated. Just chucked a pack of M44 and another of M79 into a double stout (OG 1.085) in hope of getting a light (but present) ester profile and good attenuation.
 

Kontri

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No I don't tend to rehydrate, I read an article that said hydrating can wash off FAN. I acquired the yeast from farmhouse and they are usually always sold out so I assume it was quite fresh. Also I'm sure I over pitched with 2 packs @ 1.064 og.
I have had the same experience with M44, as well as with other Mangrove yeast strains, they have a long lag time and are maybe not the healthiest from get go. I decided to take no chances with my latest brew of O.G. 1.051 and rehydrated 2 packs of M44, then pitched that into a 2 liter starter (1 day before brewday). When I pitched the yeast into the wort the day after, it took the yeast only 2 hours and 40 minutes to show the first bubble activity and few hours later (4-5 hours) it was bubbling in the most active manner. The shortest lag time I've experienced so far. This is gonna be the way I´ll treat my dry yeast from now on.
 

Miraculix

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I just pitched a starter of m44 into 25 liters of red apa. Did do a double starter to make sure I got enough yeasties floating around, which obviously is the case because I got Krausen formin within 4 hours after pitching. I guess a starter is the safe route with this one. Not 100% necessary, but safe.
 

brewbama

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Re-resurrection of a zombie: fermented two identical grain bills of 1.054 wort with M44 in each. The first I pitched one pack dry sprinkled on top no O2. The second I pitched two packs rehydrated and hit it with ~30 sec O2. The first (dry pitch) showed signs of fermentation at ~30 hours. The second (rehydrated) showed sign of fermentation ~ 18 hours. I figure the first wort was slightly underpitched and the second slightly overpitched.
 

Nate R

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Re-resurrection of a zombie: fermented two identical grain bills of 1.054 wort with M44 in each. The first I pitched one pack dry sprinkled on top no O2. The second I pitched two packs rehydrated and hit it with ~30 sec O2. The first (dry pitch) showed signs of fermentation at ~30 hours. The second (rehydrated) showed sign of fermentation ~ 18 hours. I figure the first wort was slightly underpitched and the second slightly overpitched.
Can you keep us posted please? I have a pack or two of this (and other dry yeast) in the fridge... so curious about dry but too afraid to use it, at least when i have a lhbs with really fresh white labs and imperial liquid down the road a bit.
Thanks!
 

brewbama

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The first beer (one pack) finished at 1.009. The second (two packs) finished at 1.010. In my brewery that’s close enough to say they’re both fully attenuated. The only difference was lag time so far. They’ll be tapped side by side soon.
 

brewbama

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So, I pitched another rehydrated pack of M44 Weds AM in a batch of the same 1.054 APA recipe. Unlike my previous rehydration efforts (where I use room temp bottled water, pour about 2/3 into a glass, pitch the yeast into the bottle, shake it and let it sit ~10 min), this time I used a measuring cup and used exactly 100 ml of 87*F tap water, stirred it, and let it set 10 min. The yeast cream was then pitched. I saw slow airlock activity within 6 hrs which escalated to rapid fire airlock activity at 12 hours. This far exceeds my previous experience with this yeast. Time will tell.
 

BreeBrew

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So I did an IPA with this yeast, pitched 2 packs(why 2 you ask, cause beersmith told me to) right out of pack on 17.5L(4.6 Gallon) and saw activity in the airlock only after 48 hours. Was done in 7 days from 1.060 to 1.008. Clear as water and was a really nice beer.

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brewbama

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So I am drinking the first (non rehydrated) beer I brewed with this yeast. It’s as clean and clear as can be. After fermentation I closed transferred to a cleaned, sanitized, CO2 purged keg, cold conditioned and matured 4 weeks. I am pleased with the results. The second beer is right behind this one so a side by side is forthcoming.

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