Mangrove Jack Cider Kit - Sulphur

[TheBrewingBear]

I started a MJ mixed berry cider kit last Friday night. It started off fine. About the 4th day, it started throwing off some funky sulphur smells kinda like the apfelwein rhino farts.

Has anyone had this happen before? The kit says it's ready in 7 days, but I'm wondering how much conditioning time other folks have done for best results.

 

[tucker84]

Had the same thing happen to me. I did put extra sugar in (250grams) to save wasting. The threads I found said to put it in another fermenter up to around 4 times and hopefully the process works. It did get better when I did this 3 times but still had a slight smell. Tastes fine and majority of the 19L keg was gone in the morning after a party I brewed for along with 6 other kegs of beer. Wine/cider nutrient is what I was also recommended to help overcome the process from the start!

 

[TheBrewingBear]

The threads I found said to put it in another fermenter up to around 4 times and hopefully the process works. It did get better when I did this 3 times but still had a slight smell.!

Did you splash rack it with campden tablets or just rack it off the lees into another vessel?

 

[tucker84]

No tablets just splash racked it to another vessel

 

[mneilson]

I think it's just their cider yeast. I used it on a batch in the fall, and there was some definite sulphur production (even with addition of some yeast nutrients). It goes away after a week or two on its own.

 

[TheBrewingBear]

I'ma leaning towards letting it stay in the primary carboy until it drops clear... and maybe a few more weeks beyond that.

 

[highgravitybacon]

Had some of the perry kit. It was maybe 14 days out from the brew day, if you call it that. Maybe call it the "mixing day." But anyway there was a touch of sulfur left in it by then. Carb and purge seems to get a bit of it out, but time helps too.

 

[Nautalus01]

I left mine in the carboy over the lees for 60 days, the smell went away and was very good... however when I bottled it I used some conditioning tabs that contained malt extract.. not sure what it will taste like when I drink it, but I will let you know.

Jerry

 

[ChillWill]

To types of sulphur you'll get is Hydrogen Sulphide (H2S), and Sulphur dioxide (SO2). Yeast produce it, but the CO2 produced has a scrubbing action and will remove stuff like the sulphur compounds, dissolved oxygen (and some of the more volatile aromatics etc).

So basically, leave it and residual CO2 should strip it out. I'd caution against racking it and splashing it about in circumstances that would lead to oxygen pickup (unless you can purge the vessel first).

 

[TheBrewingBear]

Operation wait it out is still going on. It hasn't yet dropped clear. In fact, it's still producing bubbles inside the carboy and pushing pressure on the airlock.

I did not rehydrate before pitching which may have slowed things down and stressed the yeast. My general experience with MJ yeast is they like to be babied and/or pitched with more than one pack. I'll post results once things finish up... which might take a while.

 

[podz]

These are the kind of problems you have when doing cider without nutrient.

 

[userzero]

Hi everyone I am new here. I am in the process of learning as much as possible about all grain brewing and buying the necessary hardware. I stumbled on this thread while combing this forum for all the information my poor nugget can absorb.

I brew a batch of Mangrove Jack cider two months ago and it gave off a strong sulfur smell that my wife did not like at all in the house. I read a lot about that phenomenon on the net and once fermentation had subsided, I decided to vigorously stir the cider using a length of 1/2" copper pipe that I had very thoroughly scrubbed and disinfected beforehand. I made sure to introduce lots of air in the mix, and I stirred for about 15 minutes straight. The sulfur smell disappeared completely and has not returned. Something to do with the sulfur molecules binding with the copper atoms or something like that.

 

[TheBrewingBear]

Here's some interesting reading about sulfur compounds in wine: http://nanaimowinemakers.org/Steps/H2S_Issues.htm

I might pull a sample and try the penny test to see if it helps.

 

[TheBrewingBear]

Well I pulled a pair of samples yesterday. I sanitized two short glasses dipped my autosiphon into the carboy then let it drain into each glass. One glass was swirled around with a penny shined up with Starsan.

My results were mostly inconclusive. I'm not 100% sure that the untreated glass didn't get some Starsan dribbled in it from the autosiphon. The untreated glass seemed thinner and had sharper acidity to it. The treated glass tasted fine. There might have been a hint of sulphur. It was more of the SO2 variety than the swamp gas variety I had bubbling out. Both glasses tasted better than expected.

I believe the swirling action of the treated glass may have helped release any dissolved gases which would help make it less sharp than the untreated glass. It's also possible that more residual Starsan ended up in the untreated would account for the lessened body and the sharper taste.

Given the lack of horribly offensive odor or tastes in my samples, I will proceed with a less is more approach. I will continue to wait until the cider drops clear and ceases bubbling (there are still very light small bubbles rising and pushing out the airlock). When I keg it, I will simply rack into the keg without splashing. If the sample at kegging time has sulphur with it, I might try pushing CO2 through my out post to try to scrub out any sulphur.

I'll report back once it's kegging time.

 

[MatthewGraham]

What would happened if you flashed the cider around when kegging?

I've just racked a secondary, vessel with tap style, just by running the cider down the inside of the secondary container. I expect to bottle tomorrow or maybe later this afternoon cause it won't take long for the sediment to settle.

 

[TheBrewingBear]

What would happened if you flashed the cider around when kegging?

If you did this in public, you could get arrested and be labeled a sex offender.

I *think* the MJ kits are sulfited which *should* keep it from oxidizing your cider causing wet cardboard or acetaldehyde notes.

If you had H2S, splashing is supposed to help. If you had mercaptans, it might help or it might make it worse. The science is in that link a few posts back.

Did you have any issues that with it before you racked?

 

[TheBrewingBear]

So I never did come back to report how everything turned out.

I emptied the flavor pack into the keg and racked on top of it. The cider had a very noticeable sulfur bite. I scrubbed it with CO2 by connecting my gas line to the liquid post on the keg and giving it bursts of CO2 followed by purging the keg. It reduced the sulfury taste some but not all. The taste was very dry (did not use the sweetener pack) and only a touch of berry.

The less left in the carboy stunk in a bad way. Either the stressed out cider gasses were stuck in the sediment, or the yeast was starting to die off.

I took a bottle to my homebrew club, and most people did not comment about sulfur. They described the berry-ness as subtle. Another guy mentioned he also had trouble with the MJ ciderr kit, and that his stunk to high heaven.

After I drank the first half of the keg, I added a can of Old Orchard Berry Blend and stirred it in with a sanitized spoon. The added flavor and sweetness has helped drinkability and brought it in line with my expectations on berry flavor. After all this time, I haven't finished the keg.

Some people have had rave reviews about these kits, so it must have been me. Please do yourself a favor and read up on cider making before trusting kit instructions.

Cheers!

 

[walshy5050]

Hi im iv just done my first home brew just I didnt get the sulphur smell but I carnt get it to clear I haven't racked it was just going to bottle it with carb drops will this be ok thanks

 

[tuumi]

Scrubbing with CO2 will have minimal effect. Splash racking to introduce oxygen is what you want to do or use the copper trick previously mentioned. Also, Scottlabs makes a product called reduless that is an inactivated yeast that naturally contains copper. It really does the trick. It's usually sold in bulk to winemakers but morewine breaks it up and sells small quantities to home wine/cider makers.
http://www.scottlab.com/uploads/documents/downloads/225/Reduless 12-6-10.pdf

It also contains bentonite so it works as a fining agent.

 

[walshy5050]

Hi tuumi thanks for the reply will have a look at that

 

[Timbrews]

I started a MJ mixed berry cider kit last Friday night. It started off fine. About the 4th day, it started throwing off some funky sulphur smells kinda like the apfelwein rhino farts.

Has anyone had this happen before? The kit says it's ready in 7 days, but I'm wondering how much conditioning time other folks have done for best results.

Had the same issue with a MJ pear strawberry cider, followed instructions made sure it was arerated. I know it can happen but kits should be pretty straight forward. Will not be buying a MJ kit again, rack splashing ageing forever is to much work for a cider.