Mango Pale Ale Recipe with Magnum & Nelson Sauvin

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Kunal Vanjare

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Hello guys, I am planning to make a small batch (1gal) Mango Pale Ale using the ingredients I have left which are as follows :-
Grain Bill (BIAB)
Pale 2-Row - 0.35 KG
Pils - 0.28 KG
Munich - 0.1 KG

Hop Bill
Magnum - 8 grams
Nelson Sauvin - 8 grams

I have read a lot about how mango is advised to be added in Secondary. Well, I am not going to use a Secondary, so I will probably add it when Primary is done. I also want to add some mango to the boil (late addition) so as to impart some subtle mango flavor to the beer instead of just aroma.

Questions :-
1. How should I add the mango in boil? Chunks or puree? I am leaning towards dumping some sliced mango chunks in the last 10 minutes or so, about 1 mango (approx. 250-300 grams).
2. How do I plan the Hop Additions? I am planning on a 60min Mag, 20min Mag, Nelson @Whirlpool (71C) and Nelson @Dry hop for 4 days. Will this work?

I know I have another thread asking about whether to add Puree or chunks. But this time I mainly want to know how I should plan the hop additions. Would have been nice if I had some Citra, but I don't so kindly help me :)
 
I wouldn't boil the mango (or any fruit).
Add either small pieces or puree (blender, stomper, or a few freeze/defrost cycles) to the primary after fermentation has (mostly) completed. No secondary.

Douse the fruit or puree that floats on top with the beer, once a day. A gentle swirl or stir will usually do it. It helps prevent mold growing on top. Give the fruit about a week in total, so 3 days before adding the dry hops, then package 4 days later.

Hops look fine, but why the 20' Magnum?
How long whirlpooling?
 
IslandLizard said:
I wouldn't boil the mango (or any fruit).
Add either small pieces or puree (blender, stomper, or a few freeze/defrost cycles) to the primary after fermentation has (mostly) completed. No secondary.

Douse the fruit or puree that floats on top with the beer, once a day. A gentle swirl or stir will usually do it. It helps prevent mold growing on top. Give the fruit about a week in total, so 3 days before adding the dry hops, then package 4 days later.

Hops look fine, but why the 20' Magnum?
How long whirlpooling?
Click to expand...

Why do you not recommend boiling the mango?

Do I need more than 1 freeze/defrost cycles? I will add the mango after primary is over so there should be enough alcohol in there to prevent any unwanted yeast growing right?

I plan to add the mango chunks into a hop bag with a marble or two and let it sink to the bottom. WIll that work?

The 20' Magnum was to increase the bitterness to balance the sweetness of the mango which I had planned to boil.

Whirlpooling for 15mins.
 
Kunal Vanjare said:
Why do you not recommend boiling the mango?

Do I need more than 1 freeze/defrost cycles? I will add the mango after primary is over so there should be enough alcohol in there to prevent any unwanted yeast growing right?

I plan to add the mango chunks into a hop bag with a marble or two and let it sink to the bottom. WIll that work?

The 20' Magnum was to increase the bitterness to balance the sweetness of the mango which I had planned to boil.

Whirlpooling for 15mins.
Click to expand...
@IslandLizard please respond on these also please
 
The mango will not add any sweetness. In the fermenter, the sugars from mango will be consumed by the yeast, and hopefully - if you add enough mango - you will get a slightly tart, mango-reminiscent kind of flavour. But there will not be any sweetness, unless you make a " milkshake / pastry " kind of beer, where the mango puree is simply blended with the beer, without any additional fermentation from that point on.

Bagging the fruit can work, but I think extraction will be poor. Bagging the fruit helps you get a somewhat clearer beer, but that's not an issue in any scenario if you simply cold crash. Just take the fruit out of the freezer and thaw it at room temeprature. Add to fermenter.
 
Kunal Vanjare said:
Why do you not recommend boiling the mango?

Do I need more than 1 freeze/defrost cycles? I will add the mango after primary is over so there should be enough alcohol in there to prevent any unwanted yeast growing right?

I plan to add the mango chunks into a hop bag with a marble or two and let it sink to the bottom. WIll that work?

The 20' Magnum was to increase the bitterness to balance the sweetness of the mango which I had planned to boil.

Whirlpooling for 15mins.
Click to expand...
Fruit doesn't improve from boiling, and then going through the main fermentation, stripping more aroma and flavor.

As long as the fruit is (very) ripe, one or 2 defrost cycles should puree it for quicker incorporation into the beer. Or do it mechanically.

Expect a little secondary fermentation to occur from the fruit sugars. Very normal.
I doubt much sugar will be left when it's done, the yeast will eat it all. You can always add a little lactose to add any additional sweetness if needed. Or use some crystal malt in your grist.

If putting chunks in a submerged bag, make them small for faster assimilation. Swirl the fermenter a little once or twice a day to refresh the beer inside the bag for quicker and more complete extraction of flavors, aroma, color, and sugar.
 
thehaze said:
The mango will not add any sweetness. In the fermenter, the sugars from mango will be consumed by the yeast, and hopefully - if you add enough mango - you will get a slightly tart, mango-reminiscent kind of flavour. But there will not be any sweetness, unless you make a " milkshake / pastry " kind of beer, where the mango puree is simply blended with the beer, without any additional fermentation from that point on.

Bagging the fruit can work, but I think extraction will be poor. Bagging the fruit helps you get a somewhat clearer beer, but that's not an issue in any scenario if you simply cold crash. Just take the fruit out of the freezer and thaw it at room temeprature. Add to fermenter.
Click to expand...
Understood.
 
IslandLizard said:
Fruit doesn't improve from boiling, and then going through the main fermentation, stripping more aroma and flavor.

As long as the fruit is (very) ripe, one or 2 defrost cycles should puree it for quicker incorporation into the beer. Or do it mechanically.

Expect a little secondary fermentation to occur from the fruit sugars. Very normal.
I doubt much sugar will be left when it's done, the yeast will eat it all. You can always add a little lactose to add any additional sweetness if needed. Or use some crystal malt in your grist.

If putting chunks in a submerged bag, make them small for faster assimilation. Swirl the fermenter a little once or twice a day to refresh the beer inside the bag for quicker and more complete extraction of flavors, aroma, color, and sugar.
Click to expand...
But to puree a frozen+thawed mango, I have to sanitize the blender and every other utensil it comes in contact too right? Isn't it more convenient to just add the chunks (i will make sure I cut them extra small). I don't have vodka to sanitize the puree.

Don't have lactose or any crystal malt sadly. So would you rather me skip the 20' addition of Magnum?

I will see what I can do with the smaller bags. Feel free to provide any more suggestions you can think of w.r.t the recipe with available ingredients. Thanks :)
 
Kunal Vanjare said:
But to puree a frozen+thawed mango, I have to sanitize the blender and every other utensil it comes in contact too right? Isn't it more convenient to just add the chunks (i will make sure I cut them extra small). I don't have vodka to sanitize the puree.

Don't have lactose or any crystal malt sadly. So would you rather me skip the 20' addition of Magnum?

I will see what I can do with the smaller bags. Feel free to provide any more suggestions you can think of w.r.t the recipe with available ingredients. Thanks :)
Click to expand...
No, fruit purees itself through repeated freezing/defrosting cycles. Do either that, or use a mechanical method.

Wash and Starsan fruit, peel, cut/cube in sanitized bowl or on a plate. don't use a cutting board!
Spin some Starsan in a clean blender, pour out, add fruit and puree away. Add a little water or fruit juice if it's a bit too thick, then add to your beer. No need for vodka.

Yes, use enough Magnum at 60' to get all your IBUs. 60' boil should be plenty.

Watch your boil off rate, smaller batches boil off relatively more than larger ones. A mere simmer, a surface rippling, is all that's needed, no need for wild rolling boils.Keep topping up with hot or boiling water if needed. Or start with a somewhat larger pre-boil volume.
 
IslandLizard said:
No, fruit purees itself through repeated freezing/defrosting cycles. Do either that, or use a mechanical method.
Click to expand...
Interesting. I'll try it.

IslandLizard said:
Wash and Starsan fruit, peel, cut/cube in sanitized bowl or on a plate. don't use a cutting board!
Spin some Starsan in a clean blender, pour out, add fruit and puree away. Add a little water or fruit juice if it's a bit too thick, then add to your beer. No need for vodka.
Click to expand...
I don't have Starsan. Will Iodophor work? Would you recommend pureeing by this method or the freeze-defrost method?

IslandLizard said:
Yes, use enough Magnum at 60' to get all your IBUs. 60' boil should be plenty.
Click to expand...
yessir! I shall stick to this. Do you recommend any late additions of Nelson Sauvin? Or just the whirlpool & Dry hop is fine? I have about 8gms of both so I have to penny-pinch a little :p

IslandLizard said:
Or start with a somewhat larger pre-boil volume.
Click to expand...
Yep. Already considered some trub losses and high boil-off rate in Brewers Friend. Ended up with an almost 2 Litre excess pre-boil volume than required. I don't mind the slightly lower abv this might produce.
 
Kunal Vanjare said:
Interesting. I'll try it.

I don't have Starsan. Will Iodophor work? Would you recommend pureeing by this method or the freeze-defrost method?

yessir! I shall stick to this. Do you recommend any late additions of Nelson Sauvin? Or just the whirlpool & Dry hop is fine? I have about 8gms of both so I have to penny-pinch a little :p

Yep. Already considered some trub losses and high boil-off rate in Brewers Friend. Ended up with an almost 2 Litre excess pre-boil volume than required. I don't mind the slightly lower abv this might produce.
Click to expand...
Iodophor is fine. After sanitizing the blender and such, you could rinse the clinging Iodophor off with some (boiled) water if you want to eliminate any carry over, but it should be fine as is too.

Some fruit, such as berries, turn into puree during the freezing/defrosting cycles faster than others. The freezing juice inside breaks the cell walls up. Ripe fruit faster and better than unripe fruit.

I brewed a watermelon Saison using a blender and the method I described earlier. I added the blended pulp of half a large watermelon in a 5 gallon batch I had brewed at a higher gravity to compensate for the nearly 2 quarts of watermelon pulp I added. Added the puree at the end of the fermentation, then let it go another week or so. Cold crashed before kegging.

I bottled the leftover from the keg when we had enough of it.
It turned out really good a year or 2 later. It was a very different beer then, had lost all it's color, become clear as a bell, and rather dank, with none of the original watermelon notes left. No infections!
 
IslandLizard said:
Iodophor is fine. After sanitizing the blender and such, you could rinse the clinging Iodophor off with some (boiled) water if you want to eliminate any carry over, but it should be fine as is too.

Some fruit, such as berries, turn into puree during the freezing/defrosting cycles faster than others. The freezing juice inside breaks the cell walls up. Ripe fruit faster and better than unripe fruit.

I brewed a watermelon Saison using a blender and the method I described earlier. I added the blended pulp of half a large watermelon in a 5 gallon batch I had brewed at a higher gravity to compensate for the nearly 2 quarts of watermelon pulp I added. Added the puree at the end of the fermentation, then let it go another week or so. Cold crashed before kegging.

I bottled the leftover from the keg when we had enough of it.
It turned out really good a year or 2 later. It was a very different beer then, had lost all it's color, become clear as a bell, and rather dank, with none of the original watermelon notes left. No infections!
Click to expand...
Sounds nice. I'd love to try a watermelon saison/ale someday. Friggin love the fruit!

Anyway, what sort of CO2 volumes should I be aiming for with this one? I had set it around 2.25 while adding the priming sugar before bottling and I got really poor carbonation on my last one.
 
Kunal Vanjare said:
Do you recommend any late additions of Nelson Sauvin? Or just the whirlpool & Dry hop is fine? I have about 8gms of both so I have to penny-pinch a little :p
Click to expand...
Wow, that's not a lot of Nelson for both whirlpool and dry hop. What you have in mind, 4 grams each?
Any other hops around?
 
IslandLizard said:
Wow, that's not a lot of Nelson for both whirlpool and dry hop. What you have in mind, 4 grams each?
Any other hops around?
Click to expand...
Only Magnum & Nelson Sauvin !

What do I do? Introduce some mango in there somewhere? Or any alternatives / spices you can suggest that would go well here?
 
It's very neutral, yes. It tastes/smells a little herbally. Use it if you want to use it up. Or leave the remainder in freezer for a future batch. ;)
 
IslandLizard said:
Wow, that's not a lot of Nelson for both whirlpool and dry hop. What you have in mind, 4 grams each?
Any other hops around?
Click to expand...
One question @IslandLizard

What temperature do you recommend for Whirlpool additions? I was planning for 71-75deg C.

Also, how do you Whirlpool when the Immersion Chiller is in the pot? I don't have any fancy paddles or a drill machine or any DIY setups. Just a plain old SS paddle or a spoon.

The one time that I have Whirlpooled was when I used an Ice bath to chill the wort. This is my first time using the IC.
 
You can whirlpool anywhere in the 140-200F / 60-93C range, for anywhere between 5 and 60'.
For my NEIPAs and IPAs I usually whirlpool at 170F/77C for 10' and 150F/66C for 30'.
That means after flameout, chill to 170F (that goes fast). hold there for 10'. Then chill to 150F and hold for 30', then chill down to pitching temps.

I keep heat on very low (~500W) during whirlpooling as I lose some in my pump/chiller loop while recirculating. Leaving the IC in place is fine. Or remove if it hampers your stirring. Stir deliberately, but gently. Don't beat air into your wort, hot side aeration is not good.

Whirlpool and hopstand are similar processes, the former using a pump and recirculation, the latter a long brew spoon or paddle.

Make sure the hoses are firmly connected and clamped onto the IC. The inlet has to endure your water pressure while the outlet gets very hot and may soften the plastic hose, popping them off.
 
Kunal Vanjare said:
Sounds nice. I'd love to try a watermelon saison/ale someday. Friggin love the fruit!

Anyway, what sort of CO2 volumes should I be aiming for with this one? I had set it around 2.25 while adding the priming sugar before bottling and I got really poor carbonation on my last one.
Click to expand...
I do a watermelon gose that is one of my favorites that I brew. The only downside is that watermelon flavor doesn't last long so you have to drink it quick.
 
IslandLizard said:
For my NEIPAs and IPAs I usually whirlpool at 170F/77C for 10' and 150F/66C for 30'.
Click to expand...
I am planning a 71 degree for 15-20'.

IslandLizard said:
Whirlpool and hopstand are similar processes, the former using a pump and recirculation, the latter a long brew spoon or paddle.

Make sure the hoses are firmly connected and clamped onto the IC. The inlet has to endure your water pressure while the outlet gets very hot and may soften the plastic hose, popping them off.
Click to expand...
So what I am doing is technically a Hopstand. Got it. Also, Yes i will double check all connections.

IslandLizard said:
Leaving the IC in place is fine. Or remove if it hampers your stirring. Stir deliberately, but gently. Don't beat air into your wort, hot side aeration is not good.
Click to expand...
I guess stirring with the IC inside the kettle will be difficult. I will try it. But if it proves to be a restriction, I hope it'll be fine if I remove the IC from the kettle and dump it into a bucket of Iodophor, and then place it back into the kettle after the 15 min Hopstand. Stirring shall be done gently!
 
TH
IslandLizard said:
You can whirlpool anywhere in the 140-200F / 60-93C range, for anywhere between 5 and 60'.
Click to expand...
This may sound stupid, but are you supposed to keep stirring for the entire duration of the whirlpool? or give it a nice stir initially, watch the whirlpool happen then go on with your life?
 
Kunal Vanjare said:
Wouldn't stirring every 3-5 minutes disturb the trub which settles?
Click to expand...
So does agitating the IC or stirring the wort to speed up chilling, which is more important at that point. You're not likely going to get a very good cone of trub with the IC in your kettle anyway due to friction and turbulence it creates.

Once the wort is cooled, remove IC, give the wort a good stir for a minute to create a bit of a vortex, remove paddle or spoon and put the lid on. Let sit for 5-15 minutes. Transfer clear wort from the top, tilting the kettle slowly and carefully toward the end of the transfer to drain/siphon as much clear(ish) wort, leaving most trub behind.

Trub does not create a problem during fermentation, some even claim it to be helpful. It will all settle out after fermentation, if needed with cold crashing* and/or some gelatin.

* Avoid sucking air into the headspace when cold crashing. Oxidation is bad for beer. There are several methods. Using a mylar balloon during fermentation to capture fermentation CO2, then attaching it back to the airlock during cold crashing, is probably the easiest, and very effective.
 
IslandLizard said:
No, it's fine.

Or stick the chiller into a sanitized bucket, and cover (with a sanitized lid or so). The chiller doesn't need to be submerged in sanitizer if that's the only reason to make 5 gallons of it.
Click to expand...
I guess I anyway create a 10 Litre bucket of Iodophor solution on brewdays to sanitize everything. Plus it helps in sanitizing the Autosiphon by actually siphoning some of the iodophor liquid. So I can just store the IC in this bucket for a while.
 
Frazeart said:
I do a watermelon gose that is one of my favorites that I brew. The only downside is that watermelon flavor doesn't last long so you have to drink it quick.
Click to expand...

This is my experience with any brew I make with fruit additions.
next time i'm going to try potassium sorbet and adding the fruit to a secondary before kegging.
 
how do you know your mango's are ripe?
I bought a mango, was not ripe. bitter. did not taste like a mango
I bought another and left it in a paper bag for a week, better. bitter and sweet mango flavor.

I now have two more mangos that i'm going to leave in the plastic bag.
but, these started out less firm than the other two.

i just have no clue about how to tell when a mango is ripe enough to cut up and puree.
 
NitrogenWidget said:
how do you know your mango's are ripe?
I bought a mango, was not ripe. bitter. did not taste like a mango
I bought another and left it in a paper bag for a week, better. bitter and sweet mango flavor.

I now have two more mangos that i'm going to leave in the plastic bag.
but, these started out less firm than the other two.

i just have no clue about how to tell when a mango is ripe enough to cut up and puree.
Click to expand...
Best to buy mango which ripens on the tree - the sweetness is at different level as compared to maturing in paper etc. To find if mango is ripe - first clue is in colour, colours will be more pronounced (red, yellow, orange - depending on variety of mango. Some varieties can be all green but very ripe), secondly - it should not feel hard when you gently press it with thumb. If it feels very soft - it probably is over ripe; third one - smell it, ripe one will smell sweeter & more fragrant.
 
Abhishek Dewan said:
Best to buy mango which ripens on the tree - the sweetness is at different level as compared to maturing in paper etc. To find if mango is ripe - first clue is in colour, colours will be more pronounced (red, yellow, orange - depending on variety of mango. Some varieties can be all green but very ripe), secondly - it should not feel hard when you gently press it with thumb. If it feels very soft - it probably is over ripe; third one - smell it, ripe one will smell sweeter & more fragrant.
Click to expand...

Thanks!
unfortunately, being in the NE U.S. = no mango tree's to get ripe mango off of.
I do think these mango's I just got are riper than the ones from weeks ago.
I'll just check them daily.
 
Abhishek Dewan said:
Best to buy mango which ripens on the tree - the sweetness is at different level as compared to maturing in paper etc. To find if mango is ripe - first clue is in colour, colours will be more pronounced (red, yellow, orange - depending on variety of mango. Some varieties can be all green but very ripe), secondly - it should not feel hard when you gently press it with thumb. If it feels very soft - it probably is over ripe; third one - smell it, ripe one will smell sweeter & more fragrant.
Click to expand...
Been taught to identify a ripe mango right since childhood. Most Indian thing ever :p

Anyway, had one question. Can I use Mango Puree/Pulp from the store that has added sugar & preservatives? I would very much want to avoid the hassle of sanitizing the blender etc if possible. I was unable to find unsweetened Mango Pulp anywhere.
 
Kunal Vanjare said:
Been taught to identify a ripe mango right since childhood. Most Indian thing ever :p

Anyway, had one question. Can I use Mango Puree/Pulp from the store that has added sugar & preservatives? I would very much want to avoid the hassle of sanitizing the blender etc if possible. I was unable to find unsweetened Mango Pulp anywhere.
Click to expand...
Depends of how it's made and from what. Sugar is all too easy to add, making fruit pulp and juices taste better, but will ferment out. So was the fruit itself ripe and flavorful when pureed?

Beware, some preservatives, and non-sugar sweeteners (e.g, sorbitol) and whatnot can prevent fermentation. Make sure you know what's in there. ;)
 

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