Malty session IPA...is it possible?

[beowulf]

Giving this a shot this weekend....something rich and hoppy but keeping the abv low so the wife can enjoy it a bit more. She LOVES IPAs (her favorite style) but not necessarily the high abv. My IPAs are usually in the 7-8% range so I thought I would take a stab at a smaller version.

I'm trying not to boost richness/mouthfeel by adding carapils, wheat or any such grain. I'm shooting for a short, high-temp mash to retain dextrines instead. I'm also hoping that Denny's yeast will help out in that regard. I guess we'll see how it pans out. Feedback is appreciated of course...

EDIT: Recipe/post updated 1/28/12....increased vienna, decreased 2-row, adjusted specs.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.25 gal
Boil Size: 6.50 gal
Estimated OG: 1.045 SG
Estimated FG: 1.011 SG
Estimaged ABV: 4.4%
Estimated Color: 8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 47 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 77.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Actuals:
OG: 1.047
FG: 1.012
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80%
Mash Efficiency: 83%
IBUs: 47

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
5.5 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 64.71%
2 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 23.53%
8.0 oz Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 5.88%
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5.88%

1.00 oz Chinook [10.00 %] (20 min) Hops 21.5 IBU
1.00 oz Amarillo [10.1 %] (15 min) Hops 17.8 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [10.90 %] (5 min) Hops 7.7 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade - leaf [5.50 %] (0 min) Hops -
1.00 oz Cascade - leaf [5.50 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Amarillo [10.1 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Chinook [10.00 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -

1.00 tbsp Yeast Energizer (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Denny's Favorite 50 (Wyeast Labs #1450) 1 liter starter

Mash @ 158F for 30 mins

 

[Copperpots_Brewing]

Have you ever tried Stone Levitation Ale? It is an awesome amber ale that has a great blend of maltiness and hoppiness and it is only 4.4%. I am planning on trying a clone for it sometime this month.
You can download a podcast from The Brewing Network's Jamil Show: Can You Brew It? where they talk to Mitch Steele from Stone and come up with a clone recipe. I'd give it a listen and try it if you havent yet!
Here's a Link to the podcast

 

[beowulf]

Thanks for the link. We unfortunately don't get Stone brews here....ugh. I have had some of their brews during my travels, but haven't tried the Levitation. I'll make a note of that...thanks!

 

[Miket1099]

Iv have been trying to find a recipe for a session IPA for a while and I came across your recipe and want to try it out. I new to all grain and was wondering what the aromatic malt is . Is it a style of malts or a specific malt sorry if its a newb question.

 

[carp]

Iv have been trying to find a recipe for a session IPA for a while and I came across your recipe and want to try it out. I new to all grain and was wondering what the aromatic malt is . Is it a style of malts or a specific malt sorry if its a newb question.

The first thing that comes to mind is to up the proportion of vienna, to 50% or more. I make lots of IPAs with OG around 1.055, and I like about 30% vienna or maris otter - 50% is a bit too malty for me. But in your lighter brew, and given your objective, 50% could be a good starting point.

 

[beowulf]

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm thinking about upping the vienna to maybe 1.5 or 2# anyway to the tune of about 1.045 and try to finish a bit higher than 1.010....maybe 1.014 or so. I only have until Saturday to decide, so you never know, I may swap out another pound or two of pale for vienna on top of that....we'll see. I only have 5# of vienna and was hoping to use some of it for something else, but I suppose I can always get more.

Also, I was reading up on the Stone Levitation clone and they mention a 10-minute mash. I'm not sure I'll go that short but maybe take it from 45 minutes down to 30. I know I've read posts where folks have had good results from short mashes so I may give it a shot with this one.

I did just get my starter going so I'm committed now....I'm pretty excited about this one...

 

[bh10]

Try a 50/50 spilt of 2row and vienna, Im a big fan of malty pale ales and Ive used that before with great success.

I promise you Stone doesnt do a 10 minute mash, there's enough literature out there about converting and 10 minutes just isnt long enough. Here's another question are you looking for a thin/dry beer or something with body, b/c that can change the OG/FG by a lot.

 

[beowulf]

Iv have been trying to find a recipe for a session IPA for a while and I came across your recipe and want to try it out. I new to all grain and was wondering what the aromatic malt is . Is it a style of malts or a specific malt sorry if its a newb question.

Aromatic from what I've read is used to add a malty flavor and perhaps even a more robust perceived mouthfeel. I've used it in a brown ale with terrific results and have seen where others have had great results in IPA recipes as well. I see a lot of references to Munich and Melanoidin malts in conjunction with Aromatic so that may give you an idea of what to expect.

Here's some more info:
Aromatic malt - Home Brewing Wiki

 

[beowulf]

Try a 50/50 spilt of 2row and vienna, Im a big fan of malty pale ales and Ive used that before with great success.

I promise you Stone doesnt do a 10 minute mash, there's enough literature out there about converting and 10 minutes just isnt long enough. Here's another question are you looking for a thin/dry beer or something with body, b/c that can change the OG/FG by a lot.

Thanks for the suggestion on the split....I'll definitely consider increasing the vienna since it seems to be a popular recommendation. Along that line, I've been getting ~77% efficiency with American 2-row and ~80% with Maris Otter as my base malts. Should I expect any deviation in efficiency with a higher proportion of vienna?

As for your other question, I'd much prefer it to have more body rather than thin/dry. I'm hoping Denny's yeast will help with that aspect. That's also why I'm employing the shorter mash and high mash temp. Any thoughts on how well that would work are certainly appreciated.

 

[beowulf]

I'm thinking that perhaps I may have mislabeled this thread...rather than "malty" (although that's fine too) I really meant "full-bodied". Oh well...works either way I suppose.

Anyway, brewed this one up last night. I did make a change to add more vienna (2#) and dropped 2-row to 5.5# so I was then targeting OG of 1.045. Also, I mashed for 30 mins instead of 45. I should probably update my original post sometime with these numbers....so that'll be coming as well.

Hit my numbers except that my efficiency was better than anticipated....about 83% mash and 80% brewhouse. So I ended up with OG of 1.047. I'll post more as this beer progresses...

 

[Yooper]

I'm thinking that perhaps I may have mislabeled this thread...rather than "malty" (although that's fine too) I really meant "full-bodied". Oh well...works either way I suppose.

Anyway, brewed this one up last night. I did make a change to add more vienna (2#) and dropped 2-row to 5.5# so I was then targeting OG of 1.045. Also, I mashed for 30 mins instead of 45. I should probably update my original post sometime with these numbers....so that'll be coming as well.

Hit my numbers except that my efficiency was better than anticipated....about 84% mash and 80% brewhouse. So I ended up with OG of 1.047. I'll post more as this beer progresses...

This is one of my goals, as well. I've been trying to "clone" 21st Amendment's Bitter American. Midfielder5 did Tasty McDole's mini-Pliny (A ProMash Recipe - Tasty APA (by Mike McDole)) and sent me one- and it was really good as well, so I think I've sort of got the direction to go.

My last attempt wasn't perfect, but it was pretty darn good.
11 gallons- OG 1.045 mashed at 153 for 60 minutes

14 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 6 77.3 %
2 lbs Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 7 11.0 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 8 5.5 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 9 5.5 %

0.85 oz Cascade [5.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 11 7.2 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [9.60 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 12 9.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Magnum [13.40 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 13 20.8 IBUs

2.00 oz Cascade [5.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 14 7.7 IBUs
2.00 oz Cascade [5.00 %] - Boil 1.0 min Hop 15 0.7 IBUs

1.0 pkg Denny's Favorite (Wyeast Labs #1450PC) [50.00 ml] Yeast 16

1.00 oz Centennial [9.60 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.70 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days

 

[RichBenn]

I recently designed an APA with the same goals. Haven't posted it yet, as my efficiency, being a bit higher than expected, produced a tad more alcohol than hoped. (In the APA range, but not at the low end of APA per the design).

At any rate, it was an excellent quaffer with full flavor. While not a IIPA in hop flavor, it rivaled or exceeded most IPAs I've tasted. Note I'm talking hop flavor, not bitterness.

I used about a pound of toasted(See Lakewalk Pale Ale for technique) malt in it, did all 30 minute or less additions, and shot for that low 4% alcohol range. Was closer to 5% though. Hops (I think), were Chinook, Centennial, and a bit of CTZ. Heavy handed dry hopping was employed.

I'll dig up the recipe and post it, if you like.

Rich

 

[beowulf]

Yooper - Thanks for the info! I've read through some of your previous posts that speak to session IPA recipe formulation. I'd say that what I put together was definitely influenced by some of your earlier comments. You mentioned that the recipe you posted was pretty darn good but "not perfect". Was there some aspect to the recipe that you feel you would change next time? I haven't had the 21st Amendment beer (don't think I've ever seen it here) so I'm not sure what you were shooting for.

Also, I notice that you use Denny's yeast with some regularity. Have you had any experience with how it works when using a higher mash temp (e.g. 158F)? I'm hoping it won't dry out too much and result in a thin mouthfeel, hence the high mash temp. I've had pretty good luck with it in the past but never tried it with a 158-mashed beer. I'd like it to end up in the 1.012 - 1.016 range if possible, but I'm really not sure what to expect since I've not done a 30-minute 158F mash before. Even if it's outside that range I suppose it would be fine as long as it doesn't come across as to dry or thin. I'm also hoping I didn't overdo it in the other direction and end up with 1.020+. Only time will tell...

Rich - Looks like you and I had similar goals and recipes with similar aspects (similar hops, abv target, etc..). You mentioned good hop flavor but not bitterness....what where the IBUs for that recipe and did you feel the bitterness was about right? Would definitely be interested in your recipe...thanks!

 

[Poobah58]

I did an IPA using Palisades hops and no crystal. It's my best one ever! Used:
56% 2-row
40% Vienna
4% Honey Malt

 

[beowulf]

I did an IPA using Palisades hops and no crystal. It's my best one ever! Used:
56% 2-row
40% Vienna
4% Honey Malt

Cool....was this a "smaller" IPA? If not, I wonder if it would scale down... I've never used Palisades...need to try them sometime.

 

[Yooper]

Also, I notice that you use Denny's yeast with some regularity. Have you had any experience with how it works when using a higher mash temp (e.g. 158F)? I'm hoping it won't dry out too much and result in a thin mouthfeel, hence the high mash temp. I've had pretty good luck with it in the past but never tried it with a 158-mashed beer. I'd like it to end up in the 1.012 - 1.016 range if possible, but I'm really not sure what to expect since I've not done a 30-minute 158F mash before. Even if it's outside that range I suppose it would be fine as long as it doesn't come across as to dry or thin. I'm also hoping I didn't overdo it in the other direction and end up with 1.020+. Only time will tell...

Yes, I use Denny's alot. It really enhances malt, which seems weird when I want a hoppy beer- but since it's a low OG hoppy beer, I want the malt backbone to be strong. I've fermented it as low as 60 degrees, and it's a "slow and steady" working yeast. I've only had it once stall at about 1.018, most other beers mashed at 152/153 hit 1.012.

Some other strains, like S05 and pacman, tend to overattenuate for me, giving me FGs of 1.008-1.010 even if I mash high and use lots of crystal.

 

[beowulf]

Thanks for sharing your experience, Yooper. Sounds reasonable then to expect a FG in the 1.012-18 range with a short 158 mash. Right now it's sitting at about 66F in the fermenter so I'm hoping for a slow, strong ferment. I deliberately chose Denny's for this batch for the reasons you mentioned. I've got a couple more Pale Ale batches planned so I'll definitely be reusing this yeast for them. One will be a single-variable Rye PA where I'm just swapping out some 2-row for rye. All other ingredients will be the same. I'm hoping Denny's will do good on those as well.

Thanks again, Yooper....your comments are always appreciated!

 

[Schlenkerla]

You can try my Irish Red and amp up the hops. See the recipe pull downs.

 

[beowulf]

Thanks, Schlenkerla.....haven't done a red in awhile so I might just put that on my list.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Thanks, Schlenkerla.....haven't done a red in awhile so I might just put that on my list.

Are you all gain or extract? Several all grain brewers have done the hoppy version and have liked it a bunch. I think it really fits your bill. I made the hoppy version as a baby birthday beer. My son gave my wife terrible heartburn and kicked like crazy. So I made my Irish Red like 40 IBU.

 

[beowulf]

Schlenkerla - all-grain all the time! I'll put that Irish Red on my list....thanks.

SG on this beer after a week is 1.013, and appears to be either slowing or stopped. Smells fantastic! I'll give it another week and see where it's sitting. Denny's yeast kept fermentation going all week long, so that's consistent with Yooper's "slow and steady" assessment. I'd be happy if it stopped right where it is...about 4.4% abv right now. I guess we'll see...

 

[Apendecto]

Schlenkerla - all-grain all the time! I'll put that Irish Red on my list....thanks.

SG on this beer after a week is 1.013, and appears to be either slowing or stopped. Smells fantastic! I'll give it another week and see where it's sitting. Denny's yeast kept fermentation going all week long, so that's consistent with Yooper's "slow and steady" assessment. I'd be happy if it stopped right where it is...about 4.4% abv right now. I guess we'll see...

His red is great. I highly recommend it after brewing several batches with small tweaks. My favorite is to change the base malt to 1/3 Bries Munich 10.

In other news, thanks for the thread. Like many, a session IPA is my grail as well.

 

[beowulf]

Ok, dry hopping presently... FG ended at 1.012 (~4.6 abv), so now waiting another week before bottling.

After looking over the recipe, I'm thinking I may just have a Pale Ale on the low end of the abv scale. I used the Pale Ale template in Beersmith, and my numbers are right in line except for the IBUs. What would set a "session IPA" apart from "American Pale Ale"? A bit more mouthfeel? More dominant hop presence? More assertive bitterness? Or is there much of a difference at all?

 

[beowulf]

Well, it's been in the bottle for about 3 weeks, and I think it turned out pretty good! The flavor is really good, especially once it warms up a little. Still hasn't cleared up too much...a bit cloudy yet. I don't know if I'd describe it as "malty", but I do think the flavor has some depth. Even so, it is a bit crisper and lighter than I was hoping for, but there's nothing wrong with that. The head is good, and leaves a pleasant lacing in its wake.

I'll continue to monitor over the next couple of months to see how it evolves.