D the Catastrophist
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Just picked up some rice balls today so will be starting a batch later.... will have to wrap in a plant seed starter mat as the house is probably too cold otherwise.
Making Traditional rice Wine. Cheap, Fun, and Different
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Came upon this thread a while back, sadly could not find any chinese yeast balls in my area. I did however find vietnamese ones, and after a bit of research it seems like they should do just about the same thing for this purpose.
I'm now on the third day after adding the crushed yeast balls to some warm steamed thai sticky rice, it's still a bit cold in my area so it's taking its time but the starches have definitely started turning into sugars. No visible liquid yet.
I found some korean glutinous corn and wanted to try the same method. The mold is quite visible in that much smaller batch, but no visible liquid yet either.
I'm now on the third day after adding the crushed yeast balls to some warm steamed thai sticky rice, it's still a bit cold in my area so it's taking its time but the starches have definitely started turning into sugars. No visible liquid yet.
I found some korean glutinous corn and wanted to try the same method. The mold is quite visible in that much smaller batch, but no visible liquid yet either.
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You can also try some yeasts from the brand Angel Yeast like Angel Rice Leaven.
Method they propose:
1. Soak the glutinous rice till being crushed by finger;
2. Steam and cook the glutinous rice, and cool down to about 30°C;
3. Evenly mix Angle rice leaven into the cooked glutinous rice, place into a clean vessel, and pit a hole in the cooked rice.
4. Cover with gauze and place at constant temperature of about 30°C to ferment for 24-36h.
Method they propose:
1. Soak the glutinous rice till being crushed by finger;
2. Steam and cook the glutinous rice, and cool down to about 30°C;
3. Evenly mix Angle rice leaven into the cooked glutinous rice, place into a clean vessel, and pit a hole in the cooked rice.
4. Cover with gauze and place at constant temperature of about 30°C to ferment for 24-36h.
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I may be bad at googling for this stuff but it seems the cost of most of my options (including Angel Yeast) is quite prohibitive at the moment, either in shipping or for the actual product. I also don't have enough room to try and make my own Qu so I can't use an expensive option to backslop my own.
For reference, here's the Vietnamese ones I found. That same website has cheap Chinese yeast balls but they don't have them in stock at the moment.
Both batches (rice and corn) are slightly warm to the touch but still no visible liquid. I'm thinking I might not have cooled the rice enough before adding the yeast balls, something to consider for the next batch. Also, they might be too cold, so I've now wrapped them in a blanket. Looks quite silly.
For reference, here's the Vietnamese ones I found. That same website has cheap Chinese yeast balls but they don't have them in stock at the moment.
Both batches (rice and corn) are slightly warm to the touch but still no visible liquid. I'm thinking I might not have cooled the rice enough before adding the yeast balls, something to consider for the next batch. Also, they might be too cold, so I've now wrapped them in a blanket. Looks quite silly.
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What I can read on that picture is Hefe which means yeast in German, they do not say what strain of yeast... It must have Rhizopus and Monascus purpureus...
As an alternative method, you can also follow a normal brewing process by adding amylase at around 70°C rest for 20-30 minutes then let cool down to 62°C and add gluco amylase, rest for 80 minutes. Add normal yeast when T° is around <30°C.
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What I can read on that picture is Hefe which means yeast in German, they do not say what strain of yeast... It must have Rhizopus and Monascus purpureus...
As an alternative method, you can also follow a normal brewing process by adding amylase at around 70°C rest for 20-30 minutes then let cool down to 62°C and add gluco amylase, rest for 80 minutes. Add normal yeast when T° is around <30°C.
No, that will not result in the same thing.
This is not beer, it is chinese rice wine. It relates on a specific mold and kind of random yeasts.
It is all good, he just has to wait.
The description just says that the infredients are rice flour, corn starch and yeast. As unspecific as it gets, but you have to declare the ingredients to be able to sell it in Germany. If they have been produced traditionally, nobody really knows the yeasts anyway as the process relies on wild yeasts.
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Yes, I think I misremembered what I read in this thread and other information on the internet, I will wait a while instead of expecting quick results.
About the suggested process, I do not vibe with it as the kids say.
This may be a little off topic for this thread but I wondered what would happen if "risoni" pasta were inoculated the same way so I cooked up a kilo and will see if it yields anything good. The water content is much higher, so I'm tempering my expectations. Fun to try though!
About the suggested process, I do not vibe with it as the kids say.
This may be a little off topic for this thread but I wondered what would happen if "risoni" pasta were inoculated the same way so I cooked up a kilo and will see if it yields anything good. The water content is much higher, so I'm tempering my expectations. Fun to try though!
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This is not beer? Really?
Indeed, they call it rice wine, but by definition a wine is made from fruit juice, here we have a cereal and beer is made from cereals.
The first stage is gelatinization, then saccharification, followed by a fermentation, and that's the process I described. The only difference with those Chinese yeast balls is a different saccharification process, using the strains I mentioned, Rhizopus and Monascus purpureus. Angel has got two other yeasts, there's one in a gold bag, but everything
is written in Chinese and I don't know the name, the other one is Angel yeast Yellow Label.I'm attaching pictures I took 25 years ago in a village not far from Chiang Rai, where they make rice alcohol in a very primitive way by distilling that so-called rice wine...
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Haha, thank you! I'll give it a month and post my findings, interestingly this resembles a korean technique to make makgeolli using a porridge as a base (EDIT: thought I'd mention, nuruk is quite different from the yeast balls I'm using). Since I cooked the risoni by adding water bit by bit and stirring, like one does for risotto (though without broth, or any salt), the end result is a thick porridge dotted with cooked pasta. We'll see what it yields!Wtf man!!!
That's awkwardly brilliant!
Keep us posted!
Thank you for the very interesting pictures! Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think the difference between beer and rice wine is one of timing. In beer, saccharification is done before fermentation. In rice wine, the two processes happen in parallel, with yeast feeding on the sugars while the mold is still producing them. This makgeolli primer has a lot of interesting stuff to say, including a discussion on the names used to sell these products to a Western audience, but also an attempt at classifying different fermentation processes (from a Korean perspective of course):
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wongjau
Well-Known Member
Yes, that is correct. For rice wine there is a gradual conversion of the rice during fermentation. That is why it is important how the rice is cooked and that the rice grains are distinct and loosely packed.
wongjau
Well-Known Member
Unless the risoni has a lot of amylopectin like sticky/sweet rice, I wouldn’t expect to get anything like rice wine.
Risoni is shaped like rice, but made from flour? The shape is important, but also the composition of the fermentables. Even non sticky rice with lower amylopectin doesn’t give the best results.
To be fair, this process also works with unmalted and cooked barley. Differently flavoured, but it works (Tibetan or Himalaya chang is basically just that). So I wouldn't be surprised if this also works with pasta.
wongjau
Well-Known Member
Glutinous rice has something like 1/3 more amylopectin than flour, very roughly speaking.
But probably will get some fermentation with the pasta.
[Edit: actually more like 55% more]
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Yes. In Chang there is much more leftover than in the rice version. I bet it is the same with the pasa.
...but pasta wine!
Funnily enough liquefaction has already started for the pasta wine, probably because of the higher water content and difference between individual grains and a porridge-like mass.
According to my tiny bit of research, durum wheat has around 75% amylopectin to 25% amylose, so it should be alright. I wonder if the difference in protein content between pasta and rice will affect taste/fermentation in general.
The jars are looking quite comfy sharing a blanket and huddling for warmth, ah to be a little mold eating yummy starches with my buddies!
According to my tiny bit of research, durum wheat has around 75% amylopectin to 25% amylose, so it should be alright. I wonder if the difference in protein content between pasta and rice will affect taste/fermentation in general.
The jars are looking quite comfy sharing a blanket and huddling for warmth, ah to be a little mold eating yummy starches with my buddies!
wongjau
Well-Known Member
Haha. Have some wine from pasta instead of have some wine with pasta. Or both, even.
Too much water usually gets the mold into survival mode, which will make them excrete acid and sour the wine. But let's see! Maybe al dente it is next time. Or some additional stale bread to soak of the initial load of liquid? So many possibilities!
It's been a while since I posted; in the meantime, I've set up three smaller batches.
One has barilla fusilli pasta, cooked al-dente. The other two have the same kind of pasta fully cooked, one with about a quarter and the other about half of the volume's worth of roasted puffed rice.
Why roasted puffed rice, you may ask? It's awful with yoghurt, but I don't like throwing stuff away, so it was just lying around and seemed fitting to absorb some of the liquid to let the mold breathe a little better.
This was on the 28th of April.
The traditional rice wine looks and smells excellent, I'm looking forward to getting to try it soon.
The risoni one looks horrendous (first picture) but it smells almost like alcoholic soy sauce, very interesting.
The glutinous corn still hasn't liquefied, I think it's a gonner - some red mold with grey fuzz has started growing in a bunch of places (second picture) so I'm thinking of tossing it. It smells alcoholic and koji-like, but also a bit sickening. Maybe this is just a mental thing, I don't exactly enjoy sticking my nose next to unknown mold. Next time, I'll mash it much more thoroughly and not include the cob.
The cooked-through fusilli with less puffed rice liquefied to about 3/4ths of the solid part's level. It's bubbling a lot and, get this, smells like spiced mead.
The one with more puffed rice liquefied to about half the solid part's level and is less bubbly. It smells like a sour fisk liqueur, weirdly zesty.
The al-dente fusilli is a monument to my failings. A cotton candy cloud of grey mold has climbed the sides of the jar, some green lint-like mat is colonizing the middle and there's the same kind of red mold as for the glutinous corn in some places (third picture). It hasn't liquefied much. It was the one with the most visible white mat of mold forming early-on, which I thought was a sign of the koji having the time of its life, but now I'm thinking this is going into the trash with the lid still on. I took a tentative huff and it did not smell bad, but I still don't want to try what's going on in there.
Alas, not every experiment can be a success. I'm hoping the two puffed rice/fusilli jars will fare better. It would be interesting to know what those molds are, if anyone can tell.
One has barilla fusilli pasta, cooked al-dente. The other two have the same kind of pasta fully cooked, one with about a quarter and the other about half of the volume's worth of roasted puffed rice.
Why roasted puffed rice, you may ask? It's awful with yoghurt, but I don't like throwing stuff away, so it was just lying around and seemed fitting to absorb some of the liquid to let the mold breathe a little better.
This was on the 28th of April.
The traditional rice wine looks and smells excellent, I'm looking forward to getting to try it soon.
The risoni one looks horrendous (first picture) but it smells almost like alcoholic soy sauce, very interesting.
The glutinous corn still hasn't liquefied, I think it's a gonner - some red mold with grey fuzz has started growing in a bunch of places (second picture) so I'm thinking of tossing it. It smells alcoholic and koji-like, but also a bit sickening. Maybe this is just a mental thing, I don't exactly enjoy sticking my nose next to unknown mold. Next time, I'll mash it much more thoroughly and not include the cob.
The cooked-through fusilli with less puffed rice liquefied to about 3/4ths of the solid part's level. It's bubbling a lot and, get this, smells like spiced mead.
The one with more puffed rice liquefied to about half the solid part's level and is less bubbly. It smells like a sour fisk liqueur, weirdly zesty.
The al-dente fusilli is a monument to my failings. A cotton candy cloud of grey mold has climbed the sides of the jar, some green lint-like mat is colonizing the middle and there's the same kind of red mold as for the glutinous corn in some places (third picture). It hasn't liquefied much. It was the one with the most visible white mat of mold forming early-on, which I thought was a sign of the koji having the time of its life, but now I'm thinking this is going into the trash with the lid still on. I took a tentative huff and it did not smell bad, but I still don't want to try what's going on in there.
Alas, not every experiment can be a success. I'm hoping the two puffed rice/fusilli jars will fare better. It would be interesting to know what those molds are, if anyone can tell.
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Erik the Awful
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I'm on my second go-around trying to make corn wine with Angel Leavening. It almost immediately developed flowers of wine. I think corn has to be baby-sat and you have to turn the cap under morning, noon, and night every day during primary fermentation.
I think I managed to save one of my buckets by aggressively scooping out the top and now it's fermenting nicely. The other bucket got tossed.
I think I managed to save one of my buckets by aggressively scooping out the top and now it's fermenting nicely. The other bucket got tossed.
Interesting, what was your process with the corn? Did you make a porridge or use whole kernels? When I tried, I used whole kernels and liquefaction just did not happen, I'm guessing on account of the thicker skin. I didn't add any water either.
I've now bottled my first rice wine! Got about 250mL from 1kg of dry thai sweet rice. It smelled overpoweringly of banana, which was quite interesting; we'll see if that goes away after some time in the fridge. The liquid is extremely cloudy at the moment which gives the drink a floury consistency, so I'll leave it to settle for a few days.
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Erik the Awful
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I'm using feed corn instead of sweet corn. I cooked the corn in a crock-pot (and in two pots on the stove) for 24 hours. Then I let it cool and added the Angel Leavening. I added water up to just beneath the top of the corn. It's been eleven days and the bucket that I kept is still fermenting strong. The corn kernels are breaking down nicely, but it was really only noticeable today.
Been a while! I've bottled the risoni and fusilli wines. I left them in the fridge to settle, which worked very well compared to the traditional rice wine (which is still settling, but tastes amazing)
The risoni wine was viscous and indeed sour with a deeply bitter aftertaste, one of the most unpleasant drinks I've ever tried. I'll know to steer clear of porridge-like consistencies in the future.
For the fusilli wines, the results were surprising. The one with more puffed rice had a sweet, spiced smell which was extremely pleasant. Sadly the taste was not as successful; it does have some spice and caramel taste in the middle, but it too is ruined by a sour start and a bitter finish. It was better warm (less bitter, no sourness) but still not good. Might be usable as cooking wine though I had it tasted by my partner and she had to spit it out so... probably not!
The batch with less puffed rice was reminiscent of a cheap white wine, with a fruity smell and a bright, sour-sweet taste. Much higher alcohol content of course. It was drinkable, though not something I'd order if it were on a menu. Heating it actually made it worse, which was interesting.
Overall they were all various degrees of failure, which was to be expected when making wine out of pasta of all things. I don't have too many data points but maybe the puffed roasted rice imparted bitterness in the fusilli wines. Most likely the roasted part. It would be interesting to try with other dry matter. Pop-corn comes to mind, but stale bread was a good suggestion too. I'm also thinking of bottling earlier and by smell; there was clearly a point for each of the wines when they smelled the best, and it would be interesting to taste them then. With the notable exception of the risoni wine, I'm not throwing the results away and will be taste testing again in a few months, to see how the flavors change.
It's been a very busy time but I was able to start a few more batches (sadly before I taste tested the fusilli ones.) The new batches are barley, barley & puffed rice, millet & banana and corn. They've all nicely liquefied and the millet & banana wine is almost at the 1 month mark so I'll be trying that soon. I've also bought a huge amount of "grötris", porridge rice, which I'll steam and inoculate in batches added to the same crock.
The risoni wine was viscous and indeed sour with a deeply bitter aftertaste, one of the most unpleasant drinks I've ever tried. I'll know to steer clear of porridge-like consistencies in the future.
For the fusilli wines, the results were surprising. The one with more puffed rice had a sweet, spiced smell which was extremely pleasant. Sadly the taste was not as successful; it does have some spice and caramel taste in the middle, but it too is ruined by a sour start and a bitter finish. It was better warm (less bitter, no sourness) but still not good. Might be usable as cooking wine though I had it tasted by my partner and she had to spit it out so... probably not!
The batch with less puffed rice was reminiscent of a cheap white wine, with a fruity smell and a bright, sour-sweet taste. Much higher alcohol content of course. It was drinkable, though not something I'd order if it were on a menu. Heating it actually made it worse, which was interesting.
Overall they were all various degrees of failure, which was to be expected when making wine out of pasta of all things. I don't have too many data points but maybe the puffed roasted rice imparted bitterness in the fusilli wines. Most likely the roasted part. It would be interesting to try with other dry matter. Pop-corn comes to mind, but stale bread was a good suggestion too. I'm also thinking of bottling earlier and by smell; there was clearly a point for each of the wines when they smelled the best, and it would be interesting to taste them then. With the notable exception of the risoni wine, I'm not throwing the results away and will be taste testing again in a few months, to see how the flavors change.
It's been a very busy time but I was able to start a few more batches (sadly before I taste tested the fusilli ones.) The new batches are barley, barley & puffed rice, millet & banana and corn. They've all nicely liquefied and the millet & banana wine is almost at the 1 month mark so I'll be trying that soon. I've also bought a huge amount of "grötris", porridge rice, which I'll steam and inoculate in batches added to the same crock.
Picked up sweet rice and yeast balls to start my first rice wine. I've read a lot of this thread and have tons (too much) of interesting information. Before I start, I wonder if I can get a synopsis for the best process using sweet rice:
stove top cooking method/time(no steamer),
rice to water ratio,
water chemistry,
yeast ball to cups of rice ratio,
fermentation temperature,
fermentation time,
ageing
I welcome any input but really hope to hear from OGs like @Miraculix , @wongjau , et al since the OP and many early participants aren't around anymore. TIA
stove top cooking method/time(no steamer),
rice to water ratio,
water chemistry,
yeast ball to cups of rice ratio,
fermentation temperature,
fermentation time,
ageing
I welcome any input but really hope to hear from OGs like @Miraculix , @wongjau , et al since the OP and many early participants aren't around anymore. TIA
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Post 6140 and 6141 should answer everything!
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...un-and-different.361095/page-154#post-9139579
Thank you, @Miraculix ! Just what I was looking for and all in one place! Now to get started.
Time2Retire
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Well, my last batch was underwhelming. I got fancy and added RY rice. It turned out too sweet, tasting like canned peach nectar. Very little alcohol.
It's a little warm for fermentation here in San Diego, but I'm thirsty. Going back to basics. 2 cups each glutinous rice and Calrose. 2 yeast pellets. Soon as it starts to liquefy, I'll do the same again along with 2 cups water.
It's a little warm for fermentation here in San Diego, but I'm thirsty. Going back to basics. 2 cups each glutinous rice and Calrose. 2 yeast pellets. Soon as it starts to liquefy, I'll do the same again along with 2 cups water.
Got my batch going today. 2 kg rice (dry, 10 cups), 12 cups water, simmer 20 minutes. I'll do 15 minutes next time. Cooled, add 60 grams powdered yeast balls and mix well, get it in the jars. Seriously misjudged container and swell size so I'll see if container size affects results! Storing in laundry room at about 80°F for a couple of days then down to the basement at 70° for a few weeks.
Bubbles and some liquid collecting at 24 hours. I'm continually amused by how tickled I get when fermenting things go like they should!
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Day 3. Got some separation going on, smelling like yeast bread dough, grains tasting sweet. Good signs, I believe. Moved from 80°F down to ~70°F.
That's how it is supposed to go!
tobiasf
New Member
If my understanding of this process is correct, I'm out of luck if it's been around 80F in the house lately. I'd rather not have to try to keep temps down inside a cooler or something. I think I'll have to wait until temps drop in the fall.
If you don't do too big a batch (like I unwisely did), it's pretty easy to go about 3 days at 80° then move the fv to a cooler with some water to cover most of the sides and swap out frozen water bottles to keep it cool. My experience with a bigger fv (6 gallon) in a water bath is swap a couple of 2 liters twice a day. With a small fv and cooler, probably much less than that.
3 weeks in and pretty tasty. Sweet, a little tart, some muscadine wine notes. I tasted the rice after squeezing out the wine and it is very alcohol forward. Is there anything you can do with it? Hate to throw it out.
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wongjau
Well-Known Member
You can use the rice for marinating chicken, pork, or fish. Google “rice wine lees marinate” for recipes. Save your extra rice in the refrigerator until needed.
You can use the lees as noted above as a marinade. I mentioned this about a hundred pages ago. Google kasusake salmon or kasusake cod for recipes.
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