Making my Pyments

[MightyMosin]

I've started three different Pyments this year that have gone into barrels.

The first one is a Cabernet Sauvignon base that I made with Mesquite Blossom. I did a Malolactic conversion using Wyeast 4007 MLF culture that I left in secondary for ~ 4 months to make sure the conversion was completed. pH affects how long it takes to complete. A pH above 3.4 generally completes within 31 days. If your pH is below that, you should probably wait ~ 4 months or purchase a crhoma-photography test to check.

I then stabilized the mead with K-Meta and K-Sorbate. When doing a MLF conversion, you really need to be sure that the conversion is done if you are going to use any K-Sorbate. If it isn't finished and you add the K-Sorbate it can give off a germanium aroma/taste. I haven't experienced this but it is supposed to be pretty nasty. After this, I then back sweetened with Blueberry Blossom honey and a smaller portion of caramelized Mesquite honey and brought it to ~1.016 SG for a semi sweet taste that balanced nicely against the Cabernet Sauvignon Pyment. After primary, I added French oak xoakers for the entirety of the MLF conversion.

Following the back sweeting this went into an oak barrel that previously held rum. The Pyment was in there for about 5 months and then racked through a .5 micron KLR filter and then bottled.
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Following the same general practices above I did another Cabernet Sauvignon Pyment with Raspberry Blossom honey. This honey is much less bold than the Mesquite and doesn't show up as well in the Pyment. This has gone through MLF conversion and is currently aging in the same barrel that held the prior pyment. It has not been back sweetened at this point and I probably won't touch it until about June. I will decide at that point if I want to back sweeten or do anything else with it. It has much less of a mouth feel that the first one.
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The third one is a Pinot Noir Pyment using Blueberry blossom honey. This has followed the same basic processes and is in a barrel that previously held whiskey. Prior to going into the barrel it was a nicely balanced Pyment that didn't need any back sweetening. I'll leave this until about June as well while tasting along the way and then decide what to change, if anything,

I need storage space for these and I made a wind cabinet for them. The first Pyment has made it into the rack, minus what has been drunk and given away.

 

[MightyMosin]

I opened up a 375ml of the first Pyment; Cabernet Sauvignon made with Mesquite honey at 14.3% ABV. It's been 11 months since initial brewing and 3 months since it was bottled. When it went into the bottle it had a bit of a small burn that is just barely there anymore. I expect by June or so that will probably be all gone. The oak level is nice but I kind of wish I left it there for another month or so.

I tasted the Pinot Noir Pyment made with Blueberry Blossom honey out of the whiskey barrel. It's at about SG1.002 IIRC and it just tastes incredible... I just want a bit more oak on it and it will maybe stay until my original June estimation in the oak barrel.. periodic tasting will determine that. The residual sweetness is far above what the SG might make you think. There is some alcohol heat that needs time to fade away, but it isn't anything offensive like my first meads.

At my last tasting about 2 weeks ago, the newer Cab Sauv Pyment in barrel is slightly vegetal and much less finished. The oak is coming along nicely but I'm pretty sure that I will end up doing some back sweetening with it.

 

[MightyMosin]

Soon, the next Pyment that I plan to start will be a white wine based grape kit. This will use a kit to make a Viognier wine. My wife chose this grape.

Like my prior Pyment attempts, I will use ~half of the grape concentrate mixed with the recommended amount of water and then measure the SG of that must. Based on that SG, I will then work up the honey must amount that will ensure that this is at least 51%+ honey based. From there, I will treat it like another mead and work up the nutrient schedule and the specific yeast to use. As the temperature is appropriate, I think I will try K1-V1116 to go for those floral esters.

I will generally try to avoid what would become 15% ABV or above. If needed, the grape must will be watered down to avoid a high gravity ferment and the associated aging time.

At some point, if I can gain access to high quality grapes, I would like to try this from a truly scratch base... for now the wine kits will do to provide the grape must... and they are mostly economical, especially if you find them on sale.

 

[Ty520]

man would i love a bottle of those! these sound wonderful. I recently finished of a moscato pyment that was enjoyed by everyone who tried it, although i think it could have used a bit more acid - something to keep in mind.

where are you located, if you don't mind me asking?

the local wineries here will often make accommodations for amateurs to buy some grapes - either outright, or trade in labor, etc.

 

[MightyMosin]

I'm located in the So Cal area. I should probably check with some of the Temecula wineries to see about the possibility of purchasing Zinfandel/Primitivo grapes. That would be one that I'd want to try... after I read up on and understand the proper process for processing grapes.

I have another 6.5 gallons of Pinot Noir (exact same recipe) in primary right now and it will probably finish in the next 10 days. At that point, I'll then rack and start the Malo-Lactic conversion. When I rack the first batch of Pinot Noir pyment out of the barrel somewhere around June, this batch will go right in to replace it and age.

 

[MightyMosin]

I uncorked another bottle of the Cabernet Sauvignon Pyment tonight.

It has maybe 5% of the alcohol heat that it had the last time I tried it out. Since that aspect has almost entirely past, I feel that it could use some more tannin astringency. Other than that, I think I hit the acid and sweetness level just about where I wanted it to be. For my very first attempt, I have to say that I am extremely happy with this. This is better than several commercial Pyments that I have tried, while not being in that cloying sweet territory.

I enjoy the Superstition Aphrodisia Pyments, but they have too much sweetness, in general, for my taste. I have to give them props for being my reference for what I like and what I don't like
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I'm guessing the next bottle of this will be in June or so, and I expect that at that point all alcohol heat will be gone. With the 14+% ABV, I expect that I can enjoy these several years from now without worrying about passing the prime before I blink.

If you haven't tried making a Pyment, I suggest you give it a try. This has become one of my favorite styles.

update: I enjoyed it so much I opened another tonight while make some more mead and waiting for the wife to finish at work.

 

[MightyMosin]

I made 6.5 gallons of a Voinier Pyment today.

I started with a "Vine Co" Voignier wine kit. I used 2 L of the concentrated juice and added water to bring it to 2 gallons. This must was a SG of 1.070.

I then mixed up 12Lb of Orange Blossom honey (3 of that caramelized at 235F for an hour). This was added with water to add another 4 gallons to the mix SG 1.099. That brought the blended final OG to 1.090, which should hit 12% just about even. The primary also received 3.6g of FT Blanc Tannin, 6g of Booster Blanc and 7g of Opti-White. I added a Bentonite slurry as well.

I pitched a new to me yeast; I used the Lalvin? / Scott Labs 58W3 which is supposed to be good for Voignier wines.

I still have 2/3 of the concentrate left for playing around with this one in case I don't like the yeast or if I feel it needed more of the juice concentrate. If I'm exceedingly lucky, I will like it as it turns out and then I'll be able to make two more batches of this which would make this a very inexpensive wine kit.

 

[bushpilot]

My pyments so far have been made with Welch's juice. Pretty lame compared to yours. The concord grape juice is cheap, but the finished product has a bit too much of the "concord" carrying through, unless it is blended.

I recently opened a pyment/raspberry melomel blend that I had bottled about a year ago, and it was really good! The concord grape overtones had faded a lot, and ended with a good balance of grape, raspberry, and honey coming through.

 

[MightyMosin]

I recently opened a pyment/raspberry melomel blend that I had bottled about a year ago, and it was really good! The concord grape overtones had faded a lot, and ended with a good balance of grape, raspberry, and honey coming through.

Aging can be nice to fade some flavors. It helped an over cinnamon mead I made. Called it Cinnamon Sin

 

[MightyMosin]

I recently racked my Viognier based Pyment off of the sediment. It just looked done and I forgot to check its gravity. I checked that today and it is sitting at SG 0.096, so it is done.

This has a nice subtle aroma, I tried a taste of this 24 day old mead and I have to say that it is tasty with some residual sweetness from the Orange Blossom honey while retaining a nice flavor from the grapes. This is a 12% mead and there is no off flavors or funky fusel taste. I really like how easy it is (well, after enough bad mead making) to turn out a good 12% mead. Orange Blossom was a good choice against this grape as I believe the 71B yeast was. D-21 might be a nice choice for my next go at this one.

It will get Kieselsol and Chitosan and sit for a few weeks. After that, I will rack through a .5 micron gravity filter right into to a stainless steel keg to age and integrate. I don't think I will back sweeten this at all, though I may play with some acid additions but not until after I add some oak to it. I'll have to decide which oak type(s) to use, though that will be after it is racked into the stainless keg. I'm leaning toward American Oak at Medium Toast+.

A nice thing on this is that I used 1/3 of the Viognier wine kit in making 6 gallons after initial racking. I can make another 12 gallons with what I have left and that pleases me quite well as it really drops the cost of the kit on a per bottle basis. I'm going to have to start to ask people to start saving their wine bottles again.

 

[Todd Peterson]

I have considered putting together a pyment using the Wine Expert Private Reserve Cabernet Sauvignon kit.

Mosin, does the finished product drink very similar to a red wine?

Sounds like you have had good luck using decent grape juice from wine kits.

Todd Peterson

 

[MightyMosin]

I have considered putting together a pyment using the Wine Expert Private Reserve Cabernet Sauvignon kit.

Mosin, does the finished product drink very similar to a red wine?

Sounds like you have had good luck using decent grape juice from wine kits.

Todd Peterson

The finished product is a bit dependent upon how you want it to finish. You can finish it dry and have closer to a wine like drink or you may want to back sweeten some to help highlight the honey.

I think that I have had some nice results with wine kits and I haven't been going to high $ on them as I wanted to experiment and not flush a high dollar kit down the toilet. With that said, I have been eyeing kits like the one that you mention that include the grape skins... I think that it where you need to be if you want to get closer to the red wine side with all those great tannins in there.

With a kit like that I have been thinking of starting it as a wine only and let the yeast start to chew through those sugars and get going, while the tannins from the skins do their thing... once its going good (maybe 72 hours?) add in the honey and start the TOSNA regimen. The thought being to get a good wine character going first with the yeast established and then giving them the sugar and nutrients to get through the rest; they should get enough nutrients from the grapes for a few days as long as the yeast have been properly hydrated with Go-Ferm.

I'd probably add oak in the primary fermenter. and carry them over to secondary After racking I'd go with something like the Wyeast MLF kit and set it aside for a few months to let those bacteria do what they do with the malic to lactic acid conversion. Wine often has acid adjustments done up front; don't do that with a Pyment as the honey add will be acidic by ph.

Since the Cabernet is such a bold grape I would suggest a bold honey like Mesquite; The Trader Joes Mostly Mesquite works very well. I have tried a subtle honey like Raspberry Blossom and that, unfortunately, highlights a vegetal flavor from the Cabernet grape. I'll back sweeten with some Mesquite and/or Blueberry Blossom to try and balance that batch out. I've used Blueberry Blossom in a Pinot Noir and that is an incredible combination.

For yeast, I think D-21 would be a good choice, though I have used RC212 and that works great but is the preferred one for Pinot Noir.
Take a look at Opti-Red or Booster Rouge as an additive in primary; if you want to fall between those two you might look at Noblesse as an additive. Since that kit has skins, I would probably lean toward Opti-Red.

 

[MightyMosin]

So this last weekend I had a taste of the Cabernet Sauvignon Pyment from the barrel. it was good but was a bit plain. For 15.25% it wasn't hot at all.
On the nose it's nice but is missing some depth. Hard to describe for me. It's taste had a bit of a vegetal character that some Cab Sauv can have.

I racked the Pyment out of the barrel to a carboy and gave it some K-Sorbate and K-Meta. this has been probably close to 5 months since I did the Malo-Lactic conversion on it so it should be safe for the K-Sorbate to be in there. I got about 5.5 gallons out of the barrel.

The barrel was then rinsed with some boiling water followed by some cold water. I didn't want loose Pyment in there to mingle with the 750ml of rum I was adding back to the barrel. That is what this barrel had originally. The barrel was rolled/swished around and then stood on is ends to cover it all with rum while it was empty and the K-Sorbate was doing its job on the Pyment. After two days, the rum was racked out back to its container.

The Pyment was then back sweetened with 1.5Lb of Mesquite honey that I caramelized. This took the SG from 0.998 to 1.008. On the palette this little bit f sweetening changed it for the better. The vegetal character disappeared behind the slight sweetness and the over all flavor became more well rounded and interesting. The aroma stayed about the same though more peppery notes were apparent.

The only flavor drawback is that the 15% Pyment now had a bit if a hot taste to it that wasn't apparent before. This will just need to sit in the barrel for more time to flavor integrate and mellow slightly. That isn't surprising as I only made it this year and wines are typically aged at least a year. This is 15+% Pyment and not a 12% wine.

All in all, I'm much happier with it now after the slight back sweetening.

 

[MightyMosin]

The only flavor drawback is that the 15% Pyment now had a bit if a hot taste to it that wasn't apparent before. This will just need to sit in the barrel for more time to flavor integrate and mellow slightly. That isn't surprising as I only made it this year and wines are typically aged at least a year. This is 15+% Pyment and not a 12% wine.

The slightly hot taste has completely disappeared, faster than I expected. Now it will sit longer to age in the barrel to age and oak up a bit more.