making IPA high hop flavor without overpowering bitterness

[KnotHeadGrady]

Hey guys I am planning on brewing my first all grain IPA with whole leaf hops. I want to get a lot of hop flavor and aroma skunky and citrusy without it being way too bitter.(like pyramid outburst IPA) how do I go about doing this? By adding a small amount at 60 and a larger amount closer to the end then dry hop? Here's the kicker too... The hops I have are of an unknown variety, the guy I got them from found them growing wild on his property in eastern Washington and he took them into a specialist and they don't match any documented variety so I don't know the AA or essential oil content. i'm intrigued.

 

[tagz]

I would use a commercial hop for your buttering (60) addition so you can hit a set amount of IBUs. The use your wild hops from 10 min to flameout. Just be prepared that the wild hops might not taste great.

 

[aiptasia]

Without knowing the apha acid (or beta) percentage, it's hard to predict how bitter it might be without doing test batches. You might consider doing test batches of 1.030 wort with just a base malt like two row and see what it tastes like.

That being said, if you just want hop flavor and aroma, make that IPA and add a small amount for bittering (say a half ounce), then some at 20 minutes for flavoring (another half ounce), then a larger amount at flameout for aroma (say, two ounces).

 

[whitehause]

FWH (first wort hop) always tends to mellow the "bite" but leaves the bitter. With an unknown hop, it might be hard to tell without diving in and seeing what happens.

 

[strambo]

Normally, I'd suggest a hop-burst, but with unknown hops they could have a AA level of 3-4% and you end up with a Blonde Ale instead of an IPA. I'd use a clean bittering hop to 40 IBUs, then hop-burst from 20-to flameout and dry hop with the mystery hops.

That way worse-case on the low side you have a solid APA/low bitterness IPA with lots of flavor and aroma of whatever those hops offer. Worse case on the high side....well it is hard for even high AA hops to add a whole lot of IBUs late, and you can only taste about 100 anyway. If the ABV is 6-7% it can handle 100 IBUs.

 

[mooshimanx]

I would make two beers (you don't have to make 5 gallon batches, obviously), one with a known AA% hop and one with your wild hop and try and figure out what kind of AA% you're working with. The other option is to make mystery beer, which isn't necessarily an unattractive option if you like adventure.

 

[KnotHeadGrady]

I think I like the idea of adventure and not knowing. I'm thinking one ounce at 60 then like 4 or 5 Oz at 20 min plus dry hop. Sound crazy?

 

[TarheelBrew13]

The answer to your question is in the name of the beer you like. Outburst IPA is most likely a pun on the hop burst technique. If you really like that beer, I'd suggest using the same technique for your IPA, ie. only have hop additions at 20min and less. That means using a lot of hops but its well worth it in my experience. Since you don't know the alpha acid % of the hops just guess with something like 7%. I think for an american hop that's not unreasonable and then hop that baby up to 50-75 IBU's. With hop bursting, you probably aren't going to get much astringency like you can with 90-60 min additions. Then make sure to dry hop with about 2oz of hops for 5gals.

Side note: I'm super jealous that you have these mystery hops to use.

 

[KnotHeadGrady]

Thanks for all of the good ideas. Yeah i'm pretty excited myself to be given this opportunity with the mystery hops. I really want the flavor of the mystery hop to stand out so I can tell what flavor it brings on its own. This said, that's my only reluctance in not using any other type of hop. Though I suppose just using some commercial for bittering won't mess the flavor up too much.

 

[ddicker60]

subbed, I want to see what type of flavors you get

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

If you want the most hop flavor without bittering use most hops at flameout or 10 mins and dry hop.

 

[RichBenn]

Putting your bittering hop at 30 minutes allows you to use way more for the same IBUs, so you get a ton more flavor.

Depending upon how fast you cool, later additions or hops at flameout will add even more flavor without affecting bitterness much.

Finally, as others have stated, FWH takes the edge off and contributes some flavor. Probably this is the cheapest technique, as you don't need as many late hops to get the desired IBUs.

Yes, I am a hophead.....

Edit - you can approximate the IBUs by boiling different strength hop samples and comparing against a known sample. But be forewarned, some wild hops are aweful. If you like the smell and taste, then by all means, go for it. But if not, look elsewhere...

 

[60sd]

I, too, am a hophead. My last brew was a personal recipe: "Hop Casserole". I had 2.5 oz of pellets (centennial and magnum) left over from previous brews, along with a ton of whole hops that I bought from a grower last year. I used all of the pellets and a total of 6 oz of whole hops in the boil, and just short of 4 oz of whole hops for the dry hop. I did a FWH, bittering with pellets, then most of the additions were late in the boil. It came out with the most wonderful flavor and aroma, and not nearly as bitter as I had expected.

I would think that you should be able to get a good idea of the aroma to expect by smashing the cones in your fingers and smelling them. In my case, I had a nearly identical aroma in the beer as in the bag-o-hops. BTW, unlike your case, I know what variety of hops I have, although I never had them analyzed. I would love to make a mystery IPA!

 

[KnotHeadGrady]

60sd, that IPA sounds awesome! I will def smell them I'm glad to know that that is a pretty good indicator of flavor. Richbenn I like the idea of boiling small amounts of hop tea and tasting it I think I'll do that before. I'm thinking I'll make this an imperial IPA and thinking of using some commercial hops just for the 60 minute addition and doing the math to get the beer to 40 ibu then doing all the late additions with the "mystery hop" so I can really impart the flavor into the brew and will probably add several Oz so that no matter the AA it will add a little more bitterness to combat the malt backbone of an imperial. I want it bitter just not like I'm sucking on a Sharpie! Ha. I'm hopping this will work. (yes hopping isn't a typo)