making another attempt at Dopplebock...special B?

[odie]

My latest attempt at something similar to Salvator...

5.5# 2-row
5.0# Munich
2.0# C-70/80 UK crystal
0.5# C-20 cara vienne
1.0# flaked wheat

I'm thinking I might could use a little Special B or extra dark C-135/165 crystal...how much or none at all? All my past ones have mostly been good but just seem to lack something that Salvator has...a bit sweetness or hint of dates or something?

Past Dopplebock attempts...all have been same hops 1.33oz Hallertau 45 min and 0.67 hallertau for 15 min. Either S-23 or 34/70 yeasts

5.5 belgian pale
5.0 munich
2.0 carafoam
2.0 C-70/80
0.5 C-20 caravienne

5.5 viking pale malt
5.0 munich
2.0 carafoam
2.0 C-70/80
0.5 c-20 caravienne

5.5 US pale
5.0 munich
2.0 carafoam
2.0 C-70/80
0.5 C-20

5.0 2-row this one came out sour???
5.0 munich
1.5 carafoam
1.5 C-70/80
0.5 C-20

5.0 2 row
5.0 munich
1.0 carafoam
1.5 C-70/80
0.5 C-30

 

[rmr9]

I have a couple ideas that you can feel free to take or leave!

From your latest iteration I would drop the flaked wheat and replace it with another pound of Munich. You don’t specify what color of Munich so I’m assuming a light Munich - I would swap that for a dark Munich like Avangard dark Munich. It’s around 12-15L but still has enzymes to self convert. I would also cut the UK crystal down to 1lbs (and because I like it and like to stick to regional ingredients, swap it for caramunich III). You could keep the caravienne but I’ve been reading about Weyermann’s Caraaroma malt which could be a nice swap here for those darker tones.

I think either yeast is fine and your hopping is fine too. Just my 2 cents!

 

[odie]

I have a bunch of flaked wheat that I scored a deal on. I've read that it's good for head retention so was thinking to swap out the carafoam for flaked wheat.

yes, light munich, base malt. I have caramunich II

I'm trying to stay with what I have on hand. I'm sitting on like 500# of assorted grain. Unfortunately I have large quantiles of stuff that is used in small amounts...result of Amazon deals I couldn't pass up.

 

[Broothru]

I have a couple ideas that you can feel free to take or leave!

From your latest iteration I would drop the flaked wheat and replace it with another pound of Munich. You don’t specify what color of Munich so I’m assuming a light Munich - I would swap that for a dark Munich like Avangard dark Munich. It’s around 12-15L but still has enzymes to self convert. I would also cut the UK crystal down to 1lbs (and because I like it and like to stick to regional ingredients, swap it for caramunich III). You could keep the caravienne but I’ve been reading about Weyermann’s Caraaroma malt which could be a nice swap here for those darker tones.

I think either yeast is fine and your hopping is fine too. Just my 2 cents!

+1 on the Cararoma.

The other suggestions were spot on as well. I’m not often a Doppelbock drinker, but these suggestions look like they’d make a very acceptable Salvator clone.

 

[odie]

cararoma when I google it comes of as similar to special B or extra dark crystal? which I have both?

am I missing something here?

 

[conlun]

I’ve been iterating on my dobbelbock for a few years, I’m quite happy with the results. My 2c is to use the proper German maltsters and a hint of Melanoidin malt. (My percentages are odd, but I always aim for somewhat round amounts in grams)

OG: 1.082
39,4% Weyerman Barke Munich
36,9% BestMaltz Dark Munich
19,7% Weyerman Barke Pils
1,9% Weyerman Melanoidin
1,2% Weyermann Caramunich I
1% Weyermann Carafa Special 2

My preference is to use WLP833 and I only do a 26IBU 60min with Magnum.

 

[G_robertus]

cararoma when I google it comes of as similar to special B or extra dark crystal? which I have both?

am I missing something here?

I can't speak for Cara Aroma, but Special B and English (Extra) Dark Crystal are very different. English crystal is rich in toffee and caramel, SB is not and more like a dried fruit kind of thing. Not necessarily raisins in my opinion, but not too dissimilar either. Neither of these belong in a doppelbock though. Dark Caramunich works nicely though.
My best recipe is just equal parts dark Munich and Vienna (or similar), about 2.5% CaraMunich and if you want dark malt for extra colour. Decoctions help with extra maltiness as well. 25 IBU noble hops

 

[JohnDBrewer]

I do equal parts Munich l, Munich ll, Vienna and Pils, 3% caramunich & melanoinde, 2% acidulate and 1% carafa ll, 90-minute boil. Decoction if you can. I shoot for lower 20's ibu. Wlp833.

 

[AlexKay]

I do equal parts Pilsner and Munich. My advice if you're not getting enough sweetness/richness is to just swap some (or all) of the Pilsner for Munich.

I like to use a little bit of chocolate rye for color.

Definitely cut way back on the crystal.

That said, recently I've been adding a small amount (~1%) of Simpsons DRC, also for color, and some dark-but-not-roast flavors. Purists will certainly scoff at using English crystal in a German beer, but I like it. Also, if you're going to use crystal at all ... they just make better crystal in England.

I haven't used Carafoam, but if it's anything like Carapils, I'm against. If you must add something for foam, malted wheat is the way to go. If you want body, too, then flaked wheat and flaked barley add some beta-glucans. (Flaked rye is wonderful for body, but I wouldn't use it in a Doppelbock unless I was intentionally trying to thumb my nose at the Reinheitsgebot and make a Rye Doppelbock. Which I approve of.)

You didn't mention hops, but bitterness has to be high enough to balance out this very malt-forward beer. I've had some real failures that really just needed more hop bitterness. And it may not be to style, but I like a moderate (1-2 g/L) 10- or 15-minute addition. I usually use Tettnang, but lately have been experimenting with Nationalniy (Ukraine) for malt-forward German styles. I can't seem to find anyone who's selling it anymore, though, so that'll probably come to an end.