Brewpilot
Well-Known Member
Why not? If I make my starter a couple days prior to brewing, in my 6.5 gallon carboy, would that be a problem? Then rack my wort into the starter and tada????
Brewpilot
Brewpilot
Making a starter IN the fermentor
- Thread starter Brewpilot
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boldone
Well-Known Member
that would be a pretty big starter. The normal sized starter probably wouldn't work.
wingtipz
Member
Too much airspace maybe? Just thinking out loud here...
Brewpilot
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I am not talking about FILLING the fermentor, just creating a normal starter. I have 1200 ml of harvested yeast that I will need to wake up... seems like it would ferment the starter pretty fast and expell the oxygen pretty quickly.
Brewpilot
Brewpilot
You could tip the fermenter a bit to concentrate the liquid. I'm not sure but I don't think the head space would hurt anything. Sounds possible to me if you don't want to pour off the resulting beer before adding the wort.
This just might be worth investigating further.
This just might be worth investigating further.
wingtipz said:
Airspace shouldn't be an issue. In fact, you want your starter exposed to lots of air to get the best yeast growth.
I don't see any reason why you couldn't do this. My starters are often near a half gallon, which would be an inch or more of depth in the bottom of a carboy, and that should be fine.
I say give it a shot and let us know how it goes.
Can you be sure there's no wild teast strains in the airspace?
Toilet Rocker
Well-Known Member
I like the idea here...Because for big beers, you can theoretically keep adding more chilled wort to increase the size of the starter, therby giving the yeast more food to repro.
The only way I'd suggest this is OK is if you have a CO2 bottle to purge the headspace. It would take a while for a small starter to produce enough CO2 to do it on its own. I know it sounds counterintuitive. You want to get a ton of O2 in the solution, but you don't want contaminated air. This is the key reason I loathe the shaky shake method of aeration in any case.
I've always splashed the wort as it enters the carboy and then shook the dickens out of it before I pitch the yeast and I have never, in 11 years of brewing, Had a contaminated or infected batch. I don't see this as an issue.Bobby_M said:
Rich,
I certainly won't claim to know the likelihood of getting a contaminated batch from the splash routine but I'm sure it is increasing your risk to some degree. The same could be said about not putting the lid on your kettle while you chill or any other step of the process prior to fermentation. You may have had slight infections that didn't affect the drinkability, but in that case I guess it doesn't matter. Sanitation is a matter of degree in my mind. You try to introduce a minimal amount of contaminants and hope they don't take over before your indended yeast gets a foothold. All I'm saying is, you're knowingly introducing a certain volume of room air into your batch. In a regular batch, that volume is 1.5 gallons of air. In the OP's case, it's 6.25 gallons. I try to keep it to zero by putting pure oxygen in which should push room air out. I may even purge my carboys with CO2 prior to introducing the wort once I get my keg system up and running. It's not that I think I'm currently getting infections, but I know I'm taking some chances. I like eliminating all chances for inconsistency.
I certainly won't claim to know the likelihood of getting a contaminated batch from the splash routine but I'm sure it is increasing your risk to some degree. The same could be said about not putting the lid on your kettle while you chill or any other step of the process prior to fermentation. You may have had slight infections that didn't affect the drinkability, but in that case I guess it doesn't matter. Sanitation is a matter of degree in my mind. You try to introduce a minimal amount of contaminants and hope they don't take over before your indended yeast gets a foothold. All I'm saying is, you're knowingly introducing a certain volume of room air into your batch. In a regular batch, that volume is 1.5 gallons of air. In the OP's case, it's 6.25 gallons. I try to keep it to zero by putting pure oxygen in which should push room air out. I may even purge my carboys with CO2 prior to introducing the wort once I get my keg system up and running. It's not that I think I'm currently getting infections, but I know I'm taking some chances. I like eliminating all chances for inconsistency.
Brewpilot
Well-Known Member
If you have a large starter... wouldnt that also counteract any "wild yeast" that may be in the airspace? Your beer will be fermenting QUICKLY and your brewing yeast will GREATLY out number any other organisms from the start. I am going to try it, if it fails, you all will be the first to know, if it succeeds... well, then we have our answer.
Brewpilot
Brewpilot
dantodd
Well-Known Member
Bobby_M said:
Most brewers I know would never put a lid on a kettle or any other step until the wort gets below 100 degrees as this will trap any DMS that is trying to escape. Mmmm.... Rolling Rock.
I put the lid on as soon as I start water flowing into the chiller. The wort hits under 180 in less than a minute. I don't think that much DMS is being trapped in that minute, if any at all. I'd rather lean towards keeping the nasties out of my rapidly cooling wort, especially since I brew outside.
I really meant during the cooling and any other time that passes until you pitch.
I really meant during the cooling and any other time that passes until you pitch.
I just scrounged up all of the materials to make one of those magnetic stir plates everyone's been talking about...NOW YOU WANT ME TO PUT A 6.5G CARBOY ON IT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!!?!?
Cheers, men!
Cheers, men!
Desert_Sky
Since 1998
good idea....basically you would be pitching onto a small cake...
however, alot of us like to decant the beer off the yeast before pitching. its not much, but the off flavors of the starters could affect the flavor of your beer depending on the style.
however, alot of us like to decant the beer off the yeast before pitching. its not much, but the off flavors of the starters could affect the flavor of your beer depending on the style.
Brewpilot
Well-Known Member
I will still suck the beer off the cake, I have a sucking system that will work perfectly muahahahahaha!
Brewpilot
Brewpilot
LouT
Can't wait to go AG...
What about a starter in a small (2.5 gal) carboy, then rack off the "beer" and pitch the yeast into the primary fermentor?
Desert_Sky
Since 1998
I'd like to have a stir plate big enough to fit that 2.5 carboy
ahem....Yuri?
ahem....Yuri?
Torchiest
Well-Known Member
Chimone said:
How big of starters do you normally make? I've made a one pint starter for an OG 1.048 beer and a one quart starter for an OG 1.076, and I didn't decant off either one. How much bigger would they need to get?
Sounds like you could have overpitching here. Doesn't that lead to off flavors?
Desert_Sky
Since 1998
knipknup said:
You've never pitched onto a yeast cake before?
Brewpilot
Well-Known Member
I AM looking into buying a $4 one gallon carboy to accomplish this as well. I just need to ask SWMBO where I can put THAT piece of equipment now! I want to brew a Heffe and an Oatmeal Stout in the coming weeks, so I will need yeast and fermentors both ready exclusive of one another.
Brewpilot
Brewpilot
Brewpilot said:
If you or your family drink it, you can just buy a one gallon glass jug of apple juice/cider. The jug makes a fine "1 gallon carboy". I think mine is a Martenelli's jug that I bought at the grocery for $5.
You can look at it as getting 1 gallon of juice for $1 if it helps. Plus, you might have an easier time getting the jug of juice past your wife. She'll think you just picked it up to drink and you can later say, "Hey.... you know what? I should keep that jug!"
It makes a great carboy for small batches or experiments.
It makes a great fermenter for a large starter.
It makes a great growler if you are a kegging person (just be sure to keep the screw-on lid.)
-walker
FlyGuy
Well-Known Member
Walker-san said:
That technique only works for a while, though -- my wife sees through all my ploys like that now.
Yeah, but I thought I read something about over and under pitching being something to consider. I don't remember where I read it or what the concern was. The batch I pitched on my yeast cake is in secondary now so I don't know the affects yet.Chimone said:
I think doing a starter in the primary is a great idea, just another thing to consider.
Desert_Sky
Since 1998
knipknup said:
Yea theres a limit. But if you did actually make a big starter in the primary, it would be the first pitch.
Gallon-sized starters? ...I've typically used a 22oz bottle with a drilled bung and an air lock...no decant, dump it all, works fine...and that is when I'm not lazy (i.e., wack-pac straight to the primary is routine for me).
LouT
Can't wait to go AG...
The carboy (2.5 gal) is not full, it has about 3 qarts of low density wort in it (3 q of water, boiled w/about 1.5 cups of DME and a few tablespoons corn sugar, and about a teaspoon of yeast nutrient. Never did get a large krausen, but it's active, I think I'll rack off the "beer", though, as someone said, to avoid any "off" tastes. I like the one gallon jug idea!
Desert_Sky
Since 1998
LouT said:
let it go 3-4 days then put it in the fridge for a couple more. The cold temps will make all the yeast fall out so when you decant, your just dumping beer.
