Making a Brut from a Maibock

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Jokester

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So about 2 weeks ago I put a gallon of DB's maibock and amg and yeast and airlocked it.
I didn't even see it till yesterday cos I was out of town. Its been in a 79 degree house, presumably it bubbled the airlock - I am not sure.
Now it seems to have settled, but if I swirl the bottle gently, it bubbles in the airlock.
Is it done or is it still fermenting.
I will gravity check it in a week. This being a simple ferment operation I can get the gravity and abv calculator and use that I would think.

Thanks.
Srinath.
 

cmac62

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Is there a ring of stuff about an inch or two above the level of the liquid. I'd check the gravity now and then again in a couple of days. Most ales will be done in two weeks. I hope this helps.
 
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OK I'll look for the ring. What exactly is it ? Is that good or a bad thing ?
I also think the level has dropped a bit. May be an inch or 2 but its a narrow throat gal bottle.
Cool.
Srinath.
 

cmac62

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i'm guessing it is done, so check the gravity and check it again in a day or two and if it doesn't change you are at final gravity and ready to bottle/consume. :ban:
 
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i'm guessing it is done, so check the gravity and check it again in a day or two and if it doesn't change you are at final gravity and ready to bottle/consume. :ban:
This beer didn't react too favorably to freeze concentrating, ad worse cold crashing it made it lose the little character it did have. So I'm hoping I lowered the carbs to "Brut" levels, which means I can try it without freeze concentrating. Let me try it and post back.
Cool.
Srinath.
 

cmac62

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I didn't realized you planned on freeze distilling this. What is the abv. Usually an Eisbock you do a double bock and freeze that. If you are going to do the freeze thing, you generally want a big beer that tastes good because any concentrating will make all of the flavors bigger.
 
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Not neccesarily true. Some marginal beers concentrated to a rather high level of flavor. Pabst APA, Sam adams 76, Sam adams winter lager etc. Some big flavor beers fell on their face, going from good to meeh or OK to terrible (Funky buddha Floridian hefeweizen went from bad to utterly terrible).
I now have a feel for what improves and what gets worse.
DB's maibock was a rather weak flavor beer that improved only slightly with cold concentrating. However it got much worse when I crashed it with gelatin.
I'll try drinking it as is. That's a given. But may also be concentrated and tried.

The general freeze concentration rule - IMHO is -
If you like the base beer, you most likely will like the 30% conc version within 1 std deviation (he he he).
Now citrus, sweet, leafy, vegetably flavors get into the concentrate a lot more than the base beer. So, you drink a beer, and you think it needs more celery and cilantro taste while also having more alcohol, try freeze concentrating it. Else - don't.
The IBU's, hop tastes and other roast and grain tastes seem to concentrate as well, and they work best and get very prominent when they don't have the citrus, leaves and vegetables and other stuff isn't present.
Earthy tastes, and oats and other chewy material likely gets removed at a pretty high rate. Cold crashing takes them out more.

Cool.
Srinath.
 
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cmac62

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I haven't yet tried to Freeze distill, but I have a strong cider that I plan to jack as soon as I get my fermentation fridge fixed. :cool:
 
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I haven't yet tried to Freeze distill, but I have a strong cider that I plan to jack as soon as I get my fermentation fridge fixed. :cool:
The concentrate will be very apple forward and any sugar left will all end up in the concentrate. As will 100% of the methanol and only 90% of the ethanol (though that depends on how much you concentrate it). Start with 15% cider and get a 30% after concentrating, and you will get over 90% ethanol I think. Now the end result may be far more desirable, and much closer to a brandy though, so that's my basic thought. I will be doing it to my mead, though I may just go with doing 12 oz or so, and what that tastes like, I'll do more of, or not at all.
This one as well, freeze just 12oz or 24 oz and try melting out say 6-7oz, see what that tastes like, and melt the next 1-2 oz and taste that. And do more if it tastes good. Anyway all that is next week, will know by say Wednesday or Thursday.

Cool.
Srinath.
 
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I may get a 2 ltr bottle filled with the cider and into the freezer to see how it works.
Apple cider makes the highest methanol per amount of ethanol. Look into freezing it for longer than just till it freezes, you may find some liquid that sort of squeezes out and floats on top of the thing. I've noticed that it smells the sharpest most pungent of the melt. However I barely get 2-3 drops on some of these melts. Now since I'm dealing with a commercial beer, its not something I'd worry about. That first few drops may be methanol coming out first. See if you can pull that separate and see if the rest of the melt doesn't have the sharp smell. It may be methanol.
Now if you put pectinase in the cider before fermenting, you may not get any of this liquid, would be a good experiment to try.
Cool.
Srinath.
 
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Oh, I could just bottle it as well. Now I have some 32oz camlock bottles, I can clean em, put a bit of sugar in them, I'd check gravity before this though, if I have got to say 1.00, could 3gm sugar per 32 oz and locking it get it to be carbonated while still ferment dry, its likely only got to 8 or 8.5% if that now, yeast got plenty of room to grow. This was a rather characterless beer after freeze conc. Cold crashing destroyed it further, essentially I'm thinking this beer is pretty much like drinking diluted whiskey, without co2 and whatever a little adding up of flavor from the sugar etc its gonna be pathetic. Or pathetic-er.
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Srinath.
 
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I basically decanted it and its bubbling a little when I shake it, the bottles are getting carbonated. I guess I'll check its gravity soon, I can let it ferment more in the new bottles another 2-3 weeks if I so desired. Meanwhile I am starting on a gal of redhare and likely a 3 gallon batch of Jai Alai from cigar city brewing. Does Brut leave a lot of sediment ? I would guess redhare's rewired would leave a ton of it. Will know in 2-3 weeks.

Cool.
Srinath.
 
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Redhare rewired is now over fermenting. 1 gal, 2 drops amg, yeast and its bubbling every 8 sec. I guess it could be not fully deflated yet. Its specs are best as I could measure, 1.006 gravity and 6.5% abv. Which means it likely started at 1.055 OG, fermented to 1.006 and 6.5% abv leaving 12.9 gm carbs in 12 oz. If it gets to .989 I'll have 0 carbs and 8.8%. Lets see what it turns up at.

I gotta get the maibock's OG and FG (after decanting/cold crashing will have to do I guess).

Cool.
Srinath.
 
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DB's Maibock seems to be 1.01 I measured, and 7.4% abv listed on the bottle, which means it started out at 1.0655, and has 17.5gm carb per 12 oz at 1.01, and if fermented down to .998 with amg that has 8.4 carbs and 9% abv. And that .998 is after I cold crashed it. Basically I just removed the sediment, which I don't understand how it ties into this math.

I've added 6oz of the maibock to my bottles, hoping it will ferment a bit and lightly carbonate them. In 3 weeks I'll freeze concentrate it. I am not drinking anything with 8.4 carbs per 12, which at 9% would be about 5 carbs per drink, hopefully I can do a 3X or a 3.5X and cut the carbs to a third.

Cool.
Srinath.
 
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The redhare was bubbling mainly from the co2 that was in it. Its now pretty much stopped. Now I added yeast (1 spoon of alcotec 24) and amg (amylo300 2 drops in 1 gal) to the thing and it turned a clear light golden beer into what looks like coffee with a lot of cream. What's going on in that process - anyone know ?

I had some very good and knowledgeable whiskey fans try my freeze fermented Redhare rewired and essentially they want to start a business doing this. Except I don't control the starting product, and I think we need a crap ton of permits and scaling up with the massive competition seems to be almost a must and near impossible. Anyway, I am now getting past freeze concentrating and getting to Brut-ization and then cold crashing then freeze fermenting, lets see where this goes. However this has settled the oxidation worry, atleast 5 hardcore drinkers + me have certified it as - not oxidized, 2 of whom will know.


Cool.
Srinath.
 
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Another 24 hrs in, bubbling nicely, having a little overflow and the overflow smells very bready.
I over filled the gallon - clear to the top, and put the cork in, that's why the overflow I'm guessing. 1 gallon isn't 12 cans its slightly more than 10 - doh ... I put 11 in and more sediment from the freeze concentrated and cold crashed batches of redhare

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Srinath.
 
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Its bubbling in the airlock every 5 seconds. When do we consider it as done - every 1 minute ?
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Srinath.
 
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Cigar city's Jai alai - 1.009 FG and 7.5% abv as listed on the can. So it likely started at 1.065 and has 16.7gm carb per 12oz. Ferment it to .987 and it has 0 carbs and 10.4% abv. So lets see where I get this to.
Thanks.
Srinath.
 
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Am I doing the calculations right. I think I am, but thought I'd confirm. The gravity I measure of the finished beer is FG, I enter it in the FG location in mrgoodbeers calculator. I then enter a number in the OG field and if the alcohol is higher, I try a lower number for OG, if its lower I increase the OG number. As in, I am trying to find what OG it had to be to get me that FG and the abv listed in the can. Now that I have that number that gets me the abv, I see how many carbs are in the 12oz etc, I change the FG number to get 0 carbs. That's my target FG for the over ferment. The problem has been, .99 is the lowest in the tube/plunger method of measuring, I have a .987 target, I cant measure that. Ofcourse I have only hit .998 so far - as in it barely got under 1.00.

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Srinath.
 
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DB's Maibock seems to be 1.01 I measured, and 7.4% abv listed on the bottle, which means it started out at 1.0655, and has 17.5gm carb per 12 oz at 1.01, and if fermented down to .998 with amg that has 8.4 carbs and 9% abv. And that .998 is after I cold crashed it. Basically I just removed the sediment, which I don't understand how it ties into this math.

I've added 6oz of the maibock to my bottles, hoping it will ferment a bit and lightly carbonate them. In 3 weeks I'll freeze concentrate it. I am not drinking anything with 8.4 carbs per 12, which at 9% would be about 5 carbs per drink, hopefully I can do a 3X or a 3.5X and cut the carbs to a third.

Cool.
Srinath.
OK the Brutized Maibock is undrinkable. In fact anything I do to this beer seems to make it worse. Its a marginal beer that I am not able to improve, I've got just about another case and a 1/2. well, time to see what I can do to drink it.
Its freeze concentrating now, hoping for a 32-35% target.
Cool.
Srinath.
 
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Oh yea, the freeze concentrated one is the best of the bunch. I will stay with the 30-35% of the Brutized one. Great.
Cool.
Srinath.
 
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Maibock 104 oz, 24 oz stone's espresso totalitarian stout, likely started out over 1.01 cos maibock was 1.01 and the stout likely is much higher. I fermented that to 1.00. Making some calculations and will be back. The unfortunate thing is the stout is a blended "beer" no way it was brewed with that much espresso in it. Likely made as a stout and possibly mixed with an external whiskey/vodka types and espresso and sugar added in.

Making a few measurements and will post back this afternoon when the espresso can be drunk.

Cool.
Srinath.
 
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1.014 is stone espresso gravity, 10.5 abv, 24oz.
1.01 is maibock gravity7.4 abv. 104oz.

The OG of the blend is 1.0107.
The abv is 7.98.
FG is 1.000.

That gets me 1.4% abv, which means 7.98 went to 9.38% abv.

The carb count is 1.4 - which is not right IMHO.

The carb numbers are different, I need to get back to OG of what was the wort for these.

So maibock is - 1.0655, and stone (assuming it was all fermented - bad assumption) 1.093. Blending those 2 worts in the 24:104 ratio - 1.070. Ferment that to 1.000 and we get - 10.7gm carb and 9.4% abv.

I'll take this with several grains of salt. But I managed to make a maibock drinkable - just in time as that was the last of those maibocks.

Thanks.
Srinath.
 
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Got .996 from redhare rewired and yeast caked batch in just 2 weeks flat, my airlock nearly went flat, and bottled and froze it. So its 7.9% abv and 5.3gm carbs per 12oz. Awesome.

Cool.
Srinath.
 
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That freeze concentrated redhare rewired turned out fantastic. Problem now is - I am empty on freeze distilled stuff. Grrrrr.
Soon I'll have a few gal of the concentrates around, I am doing 5 gal batch of Jai alai, and 3 1 gal batches of other stuff, some are yeast cake starters. Hope in 2-3 weeks all them go to a .99 or under finish.
Cool.
Srinath.
 
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Cigar city's Jai alai - 1.009 FG and 7.5% abv as listed on the can. So it likely started at 1.065 and has 16.7gm carb per 12oz. Ferment it to .987 and it has 0 carbs and 10.4% abv. So lets see where I get this to.
Thanks.
Srinath.
This one went to .993 or so and seemed to flatten out. Rather it flattened out and I checked it at .993 or so. I have them all freezing now. So at .993 its 4.5 carbs in 12oz and 9.6% abv. A 3.5X concentration will get it in the low 30% abv and likely 1/3rd gm carb per oz, and 2 oz will be a drink. I'll have to see if it will cold crash after that as well.

Cool.
Srinath.
 
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As near as I can tell the 2019 version of cigar city's Jai Alai seems to be -
OG of 1.061(calculated with Mr good beer's calculator), FG of 1.009 (that I measured) but could be higher than actual which may be 1.005 due to co2 deflate not being complete or temp I measure vs their mash temp etc, ABV of 7.5 (written on the can). That would get its carb count at 13.1, OG of 14.98 plato (and they said 15), and fatsecret says its 12gm carb in 12 oz - Mr Good beer with those numbers says its 13.1 (close enough - because nothing else even gets this close).

I will watch the video and calculate if I can.

I ferment this to .992 (again some co2 float not as much as 1.009 to 1.005 when the can was full of co2) I get 9.2% abv and 3.2 gm carb in 12 oz. Either way I am getting to near 0 as I can manage, and freeze concentrating it makes for a phenomenally dry drink.

Cool.
Srinath.
 
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I took sweetwater's G13 420 strain from 1.01 and 6% abv to .993 so its 1.055 to .993, so 8.1% abv and 3.8gm carbs in 12oz.
Its freezing now to make a 30% beaut. It fermented very slow though. I started this batch almost 6 weeks ago, and a massive yeast cake didn't help.
Cool.
Srinath.
 
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PBR black label to .993 (8.4% abv) from 1.007 and 6.5 abv. This one I waited 5 weeks, not that it needed it, but because I was out of space to put the bottles after draining out the 5gal etc. Its now in the freezer 2 bottles (1 gal at a time).
Cool.
Srinath.
 
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