Madness in my Method?

[Orfy]

Can you see any faults in the proposed brew schedule for my first AG batch.
Any tips to make it easier? Thanks.

Heat 6 gallon of water in hot water kettle heat to 165f
Add Grain bill to insulated lauter tun (8lbs for this example)
Add 1qt of water per lb of grain for 8lbs = 2 gallon
Stir; make sure temp settles at 155f
Leave for 90 minutes
Have a home Brew
Heat hot water to in boil kettle to 170f
Run wort from lauter tun and recycle until clear.
Given grain estimated absorption of 0.1 gallon/lb = 0.8 gallons lost for 8lbs from 2 gallon
First run off should be 1.2 gallons, drain into brew kettle
Requiring a further 4.8 gallons for second sparge
Add 4.8 gallon of water at 170f and stir.
Drain into brew kettle.

Should be 6gallon in brew kettle
Boil until rapid rolling boil occurs
Add Bittering Hops
Have a home brew
Wait 30 Minutes
Add Flavour Hops
Wait 15 Minutes
Add Aroma Hops
Wait 10 Minutes
Add Irish moss.

Add cleaned immersion chiller boil for a further few minutes
Reduce heat to 80f (Collect chiller water for cleaning)
Take Gravity Measurement and record. Drink sample for reference and to save binning it!
Have a Home brew to get rid of sweet taste.
Strain into fermenter and aerate
Pitch yeast
Add cap and airlock.

Relax and have a home brew.
Check obsessively every 5 minutes for activity.
Ask for assurance on Home Brew Talk when I think my baby doesn’t start!
Relax and have a home brew.

 

[david_42]

I've had better luck adding the grain to the water, pouring it in slowly and stirring to avoid dry spots. This also helps in avoiding clumps of specialty grains. After the 18 pound rye muffin incident, I worry a bit.

 

[eolle]

I've had better luck adding the grain to the water, pouring it in slowly and stirring to avoid dry spots. This also helps in avoiding clumps of specialty grains.

Me too! Also you may want to use a little more than a 1:1 ratio. It is a little thick to mix in completely. a 1.25 to 1.5:1 seems to work well in my hands.

Just have fun, make sure all the valves are closed and enjoy.

-Eric

 

[Orfy]

Okay so if I go 1.5qt/lb then

I strike with 12qt (3 gallon)
Then add the grain bill (I presume you'd premix the different grains in a bucket before adding)
absorbtion takes 0.8 gallon
Giving first run off of 2.2 gallon
So second batch should be 3.8 gallon
?

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

I would definitely recommend adding the water first as then you only need to account for the grain when calculating your strike temp as opposed to the grain plus the thermal mass of the mashtun.

I'm useless at calculating absorption/runoff type stuff without Promash, my crutch, but basically you'll be guesstimating for your first few batches to dial in your system, anyways. Whatever you get from your first running subtract from your desired final volume and add the difference as your batch sparge. Since the grain has already absorbed all it's going to and you've filled the deadspace in your tun you can more or less assume you'll get out everything you put in for your sparge.

Also, I normally go for 7g to boil for 60m into 5.5g, but that obviously depends on your system and other factors that ORRELSE is pondering as we type.

Of course, that's US gallons, as well...

 

[Darth Konvel]

Unless you preheat your mash tun, 165 degree water will probably be too low to hit a strike temp of 155. Other than that, and the adjustment to mash thickness you've already noted, you look like your on your way to the dark side

 

[Orfy]

Yes when I get the specifics I'll change to metric. I'd rather end up with 23l (5g UK) rather than 19l (5g us)
It also depends on my new toy. It's 5 gallon but I don't know if that is US or UK gallons.

Unless you preheat your mash tun, 165 degree water will probably be too low to hit a strike temp of 155. Other than that, and the adjustment to mash thickness you've already noted, you look like your on your way to the dark side

Okay so strike temp revised to 168? should that cover it?

 

[user 574]

Orfy,
There is a mathematical equation that works "fairly well" on the temp of the strike water based on the temp of the grain. I or anyone else with promash could run that calculation for you if you have a value that your dry grain temp would be.

Also, I add some hot water into the mash vessel in case it is cold so the temp of the inner walls don't dramatically affect your strike temp. I use a cooler so I throw some hot water in there and then seal it up whilst getting my strike water to desired temp. Dump it out just before your ready to start the mash.

Like others said, add water then grain however I'll add maybe 1/3 of the water then 1/3 to 1/2 of the grain, stir up and repeat until I got my desired amount. I also always have hotter water on hand and cold water for that last 10-15% of the strike water as I test the temp. I.e. don't dump all 1.5 or whatever % you are looking for and then test. Make sense? The basic rule that I was taught and probably read as well is you have about 5 minutes to get your mash temp in line before you should leave her alone.

 

[Orfy]

Thanks, that'd help.
All the grain and the lauter tun are kept in the house so they'll be around 20c.
Good tip about not adding all the water at once.

 

[user 574]

Here ya go. Again, an estimate but kind of cool. Have the hotter/cold water on hand for fine tuning and you'll be great.
-----------------------
ProMash - Dough In Strike Water Calculation

Tun Thermal Mass: 0.000
Total Grain: 8.00 LBS 3.63 kg
Total Water: 12.00 QTS 11.36 Liters
Water/Grain Ratio: 1.50 3.13
Desired Mash Temp: 155.00 F 68.33 C
Grain Temp: 68.00 F 20.00 C
Initial Dough In Strike Water Temp Shoud Be 166.00 Degrees Fahrenheit 74.44 Degrees Celsius
Total Mash Volume: 3.64 GAL 13.78 Liters

Oh yea, and ProMash would be your friend if you stick with AG! Has a default to Metric as well.

 

[Orfy]

Here ya go. Again, an estimate but kind of cool. Have the hotter/cold water on hand for fine tuning and you'll be great.
-----------------------
ProMash - Dough In Strike Water Calculation

Tun Thermal Mass: 0.000
Total Grain: 8.00 LBS 3.63 kg
Total Water: 12.00 QTS 11.36 Liters
Water/Grain Ratio: 1.50 3.13
Desired Mash Temp: 155.00 F 68.33 C
Grain Temp: 68.00 F 20.00 C
Initial Dough In Strike Water Temp Shoud Be 166.00 Degrees Fahrenheit 74.44 Degrees Celsius
Total Mash Volume: 3.64 GAL 13.78 Liters

Oh yea, and ProMash would be your friend if you stick with AG! Has a default to Metric as well.

Thanks. ( I appreciate the hand holing at this stage, I need it to ged my head straight)
So what's the difference between total water and total mash volume .
(I Presume this doesn't include the water used for the second batch)

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

Total water is all of the water added to your mash (not sparge water), and total mash volume includes the volume added by the grains. They'll absorb some of the mash water, but the total volume will still be greater than just the water.

 

[Orfy]

Got it.

So in theory, If I add 3.64 GAL of water to my mash tun and mark the level, thats where 12qts of water and 8lb of grain should come to.

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

In theory

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

orfy, try this for amount of water need. http://www.allaboutbeer.com/homebrew/water.html it's by Ray Danilel's who wrote Designing Great Beers. it's what i use for water calculation. for what it's worth, i use 1.33 quarts per pound of grain.

 

[Janx]

I'm suprised so many people add all the water first.

I was taught and have always done it where you add water and grain sort of at the same time. That way the grain is never too hot.

If you add grain to 170 degree water, then the enzymes needed to mash the grain can be destroyed. I'm sure enough of the enzymes survive to do the conversion, especially with quality American 2-row or something else that converts easily. Still, you could end up with too hot a strike even after adding all the grain...or too cold and you'd need to water it down. If you add both at once, monitoring the temperature as you near the end, you can nail your strike temp by adding more hot or cold water and keep the mash good and thick.

I like my mash as thick as possible, because you get the best yields that way. So, I heat a "lot" of water to 170-172. I add a bit to the mash tun to cover the false bottom. I then add water and grain alternating, while stirring to avoid dry spots. I try to keep it very thick. That usually results in a thick mash that's 150 degrees or so.

If you are starting with 165 degrees and shooting for a strike of 155 degrees, then your mash is going to be too runny IMHO.

Cheers!

 

[Mindflux]

I'm sure it's been said but ideally you want your two runoffs (if batch sparging) to be about equal. If your post boil volume is 6 gallons, make sure you run off 3 the first time, and 3 the second.

For instance: My typical pre boil volume is 7-8 gallons.

I mash-in with 3 gallons and let it settle at whatever mash temp I had in mind. Typical grain absorption on a 10 pound recipe is 1-1.1 gallons. So I can count on only running off 2.

I'll strike with another 2 gallons @ 191 (calculated in promash) to raise my grainbed to 168. Stir my mash and vourlaf until clear and run off.

This nets me 4 gallons for the first runoff.. or there abouts.

I'll sparge another 4 gallons @ 185ish (to get the grainbed in the 160s).. stir, vourlaf and drain off.

I'll end up with about 7-7.5 in the kettle, I have half a gallon loss in my MT, and another half gallon in my kettle. By the time I boil down 7.5 gallons I'm down to about 5.5, take a half gallon loss in the kettle to get 5 gallons in the fermenter.

This is based on Denny Conn's 'Cheap N Easy Batch Sparging' technique. He's pioneered the way for batch spargers and it seems to work well for me.

http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/

I've still got a few kinks to work out, as my efficiency bounce between the high 60s and mid 70s.

 

[Mindflux]

For what it's worth, underletting is the way to go as far as filling your MT

I don't do it. no pump.

 

[Janx]

Do you find your efficiency is much better batch sparging than...whatever the regular way is called?

I tend to do the regular "flow" sparging until I get 3/4 of my volume. I then shut off the sparge and add enough hot water to the mash to cover it. I then start heating my kettle. Once it's about 10 degrees shy of boiling, I drain the mash tun into the kettle to collect the remaining 1/4 of my boil volume. The runnings are always much sweeter for a brief period after this "rest".

I haven't bothered to measure my efficiency in a long time...I'm not into that aspect of brewing. But, it does seem to be more efficient to do at least this "hybrid" method of sparging just based on tasting the runnings.

When I first started brewing, no one even talked about batch sparging...

Cheers!

 

[Janx]

For what it's worth, underletting is the way to go as far as filling your MT

I don't do it. no pump.

Meaning add all the grain to the tun and then pump hot water in through the false bottom?

Pump...I've been putting off adding one for many years since I burned out my last one...very handy when they're working, but best not to count on them in my experience

 

[Mindflux]

Meaning add all the grain to the tun and then pump hot water in through the false bottom?

Pump...I've been putting off adding one for many years since I burned out my last one...very handy when they're working, but best not to count on them in my experience

Yes sir. Just like that. As the water rises through the FB/Braided hose/whathave you.. the grain absorbs it.. the folks who use this method do not usually need to stir to keep dough-balls from forming.. SUPPOSEDLY this leads to less heat loss in the transfer as well (like when I dump 3 gallons of hot water into my MT it lets off a lot of steam).

 

[Mindflux]

Do you find your efficiency is much better batch sparging than...whatever the regular way is called?

I tend to do the regular "flow" sparging until I get 3/4 of my volume. I then shut off the sparge and add enough hot water to the mash to cover it. I then start heating my kettle. Once it's about 10 degrees shy of boiling, I drain the mash tun into the kettle to collect the remaining 1/4 of my boil volume. The runnings are always much sweeter for a brief period after this "rest".

I haven't bothered to measure my efficiency in a long time...I'm not into that aspect of brewing. But, it does seem to be more efficient to do at least this "hybrid" method of sparging just based on tasting the runnings.

When I first started brewing, no one even talked about batch sparging...

Cheers!

Batch Sparging compared to Continuous Sparging, or Fly Sparging or to the old schoolers, simply Sparging isn't quite as efficient (although some batch spargers claim otherwise). In general most folks see a 5 point increase from Fly(Continous) in comparison to Batch.

There are however, folks that batch sparge and reach the high 70s to low 80s in efficiency (which is just freakin un-real! I'd love to get those numbers).

The good stuff about batch sparging:
Decrease your brew day by an hour
No need to monitor pH closely
Damn near impossible to over-sparge.

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

Ofrmeister,
Here's the recipe I was mentioning, it's one I got from a mag and used as a base for my chipotle ale, but it tasted pretty good before I added the chipotles, so I might try a 'naked' version myself:

American Brown Ale
5g/19l
OG 1056 FG 1014
IBU 44 SRM 39 ABV 5.4%

4.5lbs Maris Otter
4.5lbs light Munich
1.2lbs crystal (120L)
10oz chocolate
10oz biscuit
10oz torrefied wheat
8.5aau Target hops (80m)
4aau Willamette (20m)
1.6oz Willamette (0m)

White Labs WLP006 British Ale yeast (2l starter)
.75c corn sugar priming

It sounded perfect until I started typing it and realized it was perhaps not as Newcastley as it could be. However, it's fairly straightforward. I imagine you could eliminate the torrefied wheat and add another 1/2lb of Marris Otter to simplify the grist. You could also replace the Willamette hops with Fuggle. You'll need to scale up for your 23L, as well!