Going to give this a shot soon in either an IPL or cold IPA, but I've seen very little regarding first hand experiences with Omega's new Lunar Crush. Anyone have any thoughts, experience, or sage advice?
Lunar Crush Lager experience?
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Looking for anyone with experience using this new yeast as well.
Zstyle
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I just brewed up a New Zealand Pilsner with Lunar Crush. I’ve done a couple hazy IPAs w/ Cosmic Punch, so I was eager to try a hoppy lager with this yeast. Mashed hopped with Perle and Cascade. Then WP & DH with Nectaron, Nelson, and Rakau. Fermented at 57 degrees, 5.6%. I’m happy and super stoked with it! The yeast definitely throws the stone fruit aromas and flavor. Mash hopping and a lesser WP & DH (than a typical IPA) helps make sure the Thiols shine. It has a little haze to it but I’m hoping that settles out with more time conditioning in the keg. It’s crisp and super fruity.
Hoppy lagers are a go! Curious how a cold IPA would do, higher IBU, ABV, more hops… Worth a try!
Hoppy lagers are a go! Curious how a cold IPA would do, higher IBU, ABV, more hops… Worth a try!
OP
OP
Well, for one I'm reading that some inherent IPA (especially cold IPA) processes do not lend themselves to the optimization of thiolized yeasts - mainly heavy whirlpool and dry hop usage, and (in the case with cold IPA) high adjuncts. I don't doubt it'll bring something extra to the table, but I'll probably avoid using it to go overboard with in a cold IPA.
What does thiolized mean? Genetic modification of the yeast?
OP
OP
All about our Thiolized yeast series
Yeast genetically modified to access otherwise inaccessible thiols to generate unique flavors from grain and hops. It's gaining a lot of momentum recently.
Ok thanks, then I'm out.
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
Well you don't have much choice at the moment, as they're effectively banned in the EU and some other European countries. But since they're created by "gene editing" (CRISPR) rather than traditional transgenics, they'll probably be part of the first wave of relaxation - certainly within 5-10 years, quite possibly a lot sooner. UK likely to be ahead of EU, but they've missed the first round of post-Brexit relaxation here which was aimed at plants.
Zstyle
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Yea, think it’d be something a little different than what the “Cold IPA” style is recommending. Fruity hoppy lagers, all day long worth the try. But if you’re hard set on a cold IPA, just stick with 34/70. Super clean in the lower to mid 60s, & don’t hold back on the WP & DH additions!
OP
OP
Your're right. The cold IPAs I've done I've had good luck with S-189, S-23, and the augusteiner liquid strain. I'd for sure stick with one of those, and lean into Lunar Crush for the IPLs.
couchsending
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Lunar Crush utilizes the PatB gene mod which releases a ton more Thiol content as opposed to the gene mod used for Cosmic Punch. Consequently with Lunar Crush mash hopping doesn’t really increase Thiol content that much and whirlpool hopping doesn’t decrease it as much either. However heavy dry hopping can significantly decrease Thiol content in the finished beer. Which might not necessarily be a bad thing…,
Thiols are a sulfur compound. These yeasts not only release the good sulfur compounds but also the not as good ones, especially the yeasts using the PatB gene mod. In my experience with Helio Gazer and Lunar Crush the sulfur can be a bit overwhelming and either needs time to age out or some dry hopping to reduce its impact.
New Image Brewing in CO has done a ton of work on Thiols and they have some interesting blog posts on their website.
Thiols are a sulfur compound. These yeasts not only release the good sulfur compounds but also the not as good ones, especially the yeasts using the PatB gene mod. In my experience with Helio Gazer and Lunar Crush the sulfur can be a bit overwhelming and either needs time to age out or some dry hopping to reduce its impact.
New Image Brewing in CO has done a ton of work on Thiols and they have some interesting blog posts on their website.
OP
OP
Interesting info, but where did it come from? I know Omega is taking broad strokes with info when it comes to their thiolized yeasts, but this is the first I've heard of Lunar Crush specifically behaving differently from the others - with respect to mash hopping not contributing to thiols and whirlpool not decreasing thiols.
Good point - it is a lager, so I (personally) planned on lagering for some time longer than most might for a quicker turn.
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
Well the general Omega introduction to their edited yeasts tells you which use the yeast (Chico in fact) β – lyase IRC7 - Cosmic Punch (based on British Ale V, their version of 1318) - and which use the more active bacterial PatB - Star Party (based on Chico), Lunar Crush(based on Mexican lager) and Helio Gazer (British Ale V again).
And it's plausible that since patB is about 30x more effective than IRC7, then you may need to restrain it a little bit. Next stop - thiolise a Renaissance yeast to lose the sulphur?!?!
This presentation has a bit of background, and also goes on to using it with Phantasm.
https://hopandbrewschool.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Survivables-Thiols-and-Beyond.pdf
couchsending
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Honestly Phantasm is pretty much not worth using with these new PatB yeasts. It’s so damn expensive and these yeast release such high amounts of thiols from the malt you don’t need the phantasm to create a wort loaded with Thiols.
Sulfur reduction is better at higher temps so I’d leave your Lunar Cush beer above 40 for a little longer instead of hoping that sulfur goes away during lagering.
Sulfur reduction is better at higher temps so I’d leave your Lunar Cush beer above 40 for a little longer instead of hoping that sulfur goes away during lagering.
OP
OP
Yeah, I'm actually fermenting around 55-57F with it, when I'd normally do lagers around 50F, so hopefully that helps. Going to pivot my approach a bit, based on your suggestion, and add some dry hopping in order to temper the (sounds likely) overwhelming thiol flavors that have possibly been generated. Thanks for the info.
couchsending
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It will help but I’d just wait to crash it until you feel the sulfur is in a good place. In my experience the sulfur tends to increase a bit as you get close to terminal.
How did it turn out?
I picked up some of this yeast yesterday
OP
OP
It was okay. As others have mentioned, Lunar Crush (being PatB) is much more overpowering than Cosmic Punch (IRC-7) so the dry hopping I did (I don't think) touched the thiols produced. It's a strong beer: I can walk into my tap room 10min after someone had poured one and know it was poured. It's much stronger on the nose than the tongue, though. It's polarizing: some people don't like the arm-pittyness of it, but enjoy it. I pulled as many levers as I could to bolster the thiol generation (mash hopping, minimal whirlpool/dry hop, etc.) so if I were to use this again I'd take it to the opposite end of the spectrum and try to reign in the thiols.
I didn't get any sulfur out of it, but I did ferment cool and pitched big.
OP
OP
That's the route I'd go, knowing now what I do now. I've only used the Lunar Crush version of a PatB, but next time I wouldn't do anything to accelerate thiol generation, to balance it out more.
From the Omega website:
"We recommend trying out one of our Thiolized strains in a relatively simple recipe, like a blonde or pale ale with minimal hop rates to let the yeast really shine and experience firsthand how these thiols are expressed in the finished product."
"We recommend trying out one of our Thiolized strains in a relatively simple recipe, like a blonde or pale ale with minimal hop rates to let the yeast really shine and experience firsthand how these thiols are expressed in the finished product."
I’m with you on this . . . I just kegged an IPA fermented with Lunar Crush. Big grapefruit and passion fruit aromas. Who needs Phantasm?
