Lowering mash ph

[Jrl1775]

I use brewer’s friend and my mash ph always seems to be according to the recipe builder. Is at simple as just adding salts or is there other things I need to do? Is there something that I can add to my grain bill that may help? Thanks!

 

[Dland]

Weyerman acid malt will, just add to grain bill. Try not to overdo it though, it could end up sour.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

"my mash ph always seems to be HIGH?? according to the recipe builder."

The real answer will depend a lot on your base water source.

Calcium will lower your mash pH some (Calcium Chloride or Calcium Sulfate/Gypsum). I have been using Acidulated Malt to lower my pH for medium and light colored beers, but there are various acids that can be added. The darker malts in beers like Porters and Stouts will often drop your pH into range (or maybe too low).

 

[balrog]

I heartily suggest reading and trying the really simple method outlined here first if you really want to start down the water rabbit hole.

 

[JimRausch]

Using Brun water, I used to add some acid malt to most of my recipes. But, it's easier to add a little lactic acid, again based on Brun water's recommendation.

 

[Jrl1775]

Thanks guys! After I posted this I started reading a bit.... I am going in deep I think

 

[Jrl1775]

But any other reading suggestions are welcomed as well but I will start with what I have here now! Thanks again!

 

[Rev2010]

Water treatments such as gypsum and calcium chloride lower mash pH and you should really start looking at your water chemistry if you haven't yet. But the easiest way to lower mash pH is using lactic acid. You can use acidulated malt but if you're not trying to stick to the Rheinheitsgebot then why not make life easier and use lactic acid? It's cheap and easy to measure and all the calcs support it. Of course, the best thing would be to use it in conjunction with water treatments as opposed to relying on it solely - but yeah it will work all by itself to lower pH.


Rev.

 

[bracconiere]

+1 to brewing more dark beers, if that's what your waters suited for...

(and i thought phosphoric acid was superior to lactic, for the neutral flavor?)

 

[VirginiaHops1]

(and i thought phosphoric acid was superior to lactic, for the neutral flavor?)

I think phosphoric is more neutral flavor-wise but it takes a lot of lactic to get above the taste threshold. If your water has that much alkalinity that you're dumping in a lot of any acid you should probably just cut it with RO or distilled.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

It takes a lot of lactic acid to hit the flavor detection threshold.

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Lactate_Taste_Threshold_experiment

 

[bracconiere]

I think phosphoric is more neutral flavor-wise but it takes a lot of lactic to get above the taste threshold. If your water has that much alkalinity that you're dumping in a lot of any acid you should probably just cut it with RO or distilled.

actually, with my water, i usually have to add a couple teaspoons of pot bicarb to get ph up. i was just mentioning it for the OP

edit: not sure if it's the cause...but my tap water is like dissolved chalk...lol

 

[Rev2010]

and i thought phosphoric acid was superior to lactic, for the neutral flavor?

From what I recall reading phosphoric takes a lot more to achieve the same level of pH lowering. I've never used over 5ml of lactic acid, and at that level I never tasted any noticeable affects. These days, with my water and water chemistry adjustments I rarely use more than 2.5ml lactic acid with the majority of my additions usually somewhere around 1.5ml.


Rev.

 

[bracconiere]

From what I recall reading phosphoric takes a lot more to achieve the same level of pH lowering. I've never used over 5ml of lactic acid, and at that level I never tasted any noticeable affects. These days, with my water and water chemistry adjustments I rarely use more than 2.5ml lactic acid with the majority of my additions usually somewhere around 1.5ml.


Rev.

lol, just had the thought along with my feed store barley what about 30% pool acid?, or sulphuric drain opener? i've used hardware store sulphuric for making jams before....with homemade pectin from orange peel....(fun science project if your interested, forcing it out of solution with isoporpyl....almost makes you feel like a gangster)

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Personally...as somebody pretty new to pH adjustments...I have been swapping a little of my base grain with acidulated malt (4 to 6 oz) to bring my pH for lighter beers in line. That seems pretty darn easy. I brewed a Belgian Pale Ale recently. Bru'n Water was telling me that I needed more acidulated malt than I was comfortable adding, so I added some 10% phosphoric acid (23 ml). That was pretty easy too, and my measured pH was almost exact to the prediction (5.49 vs 5.50).

 

[couchsending]

From what I recall reading phosphoric takes a lot more to achieve the same level of pH lowering. I've never used over 5ml of lactic acid, and at that level I never tasted any noticeable affects. These days, with my water and water chemistry adjustments I rarely use more than 2.5ml lactic acid with the majority of my additions usually somewhere around 1.5ml.


Rev.

It takes a lot more of the 10% phosphoric acid that most home brew places sell but it takes less of the 85% phosphoric that the pros use. You can buy food grade phosphoric acid of that strength for next to nothing online. I think I got a gallon for $20 or $30.

actually, with my water, i usually have to add a couple teaspoons of pot bicarb to get ph up. i was just mentioning it for the OP

edit: not sure if it's the cause...but my tap water is like dissolved chalk...lol

I’ve never seen water where you have to add bicarbonate as pH is too low except for dark beer styles. Where do you live?

If your water is high in bicarbonate and calcium you can boil the water and decant to get rid of both. If I use my well water I have to. It’s something like 240 Alkalinity and 250 hardness. Boiling reduces those numbers to much more manageable amounts.

 

[bracconiere]

It takes a lot more of the 10% phosphoric acid that most home brew places sell but it takes less of the 85% phosphoric that the pros use. You can buy food grade phosphoric acid of that strength for next to nothing online. I think I got a gallon for $20 or $30.



I’ve never seen water where you have to add bicarbonate as pH is too low except for dark beer styles. Where do you live?

If your water is high in bicarbonate and calcium you can boil the water and decant to get rid of both. If I use my well water I have to. It’s something like 240 Alkalinity and 250 hardness. Boiling reduces those numbers to much more manageable amounts.

i use the 85% stuff myself...and as my title says S.AZ....i was just reading up on ph and Ca+ hyrdolysis for other reasons...sorta interesting but, i assure you i calibrate my meter. And when i stick it in my mash tun, i get anywhere from 4.9-5.1, and have to ad bicarb to get it up to 5.3-5.4....(i also find the more rootlets i don't don't clean off my homemalt the more acidic my mash is, possibly a homebrew additive?....lol) but i'm drunk, can hardly see this text, and i gotta keg up some cider, cuz' my beer keg is almost empty!

 

[couchsending]

i use the 85% stuff myself...and as my title says S.AZ....i was just reading up on ph and Ca+ hyrdolysis for other reasons...sorta interesting but, i assure you i calibrate my meter. And when i stick it in my mash tun, i get anywhere from 4.9-5.1, and have to ad bicarb to get it up to 5.3-5.4....(i also find the more rootlets i don't don't clean off my homemalt the more acidic my mash is, possibly a homebrew additive?....lol) but i'm drunk, can hardly see this text, and i gotta keg up some cider, cuz' my beer keg is almost empty!

You’re measuring pH at mash temp or room temp? 4.9-5.1 at mash temp is 5.25-5.45 at room temp which is where you want to be. If you’re measuring temp in the mash all the time that meter won’t last very long.

 

[bracconiere]

You’re measuring pH at mash temp or room temp? 4.9-5.1 at mash temp is 5.25-5.45 at room temp which is where you want to be. If you’re measuring temp in the mash all the time that meter won’t last very long.

i have a Milwaukee MW-101, original probe....had it for years it never even loses calibration. lol, and i always just stick the probe into the mash with the dial for temp correction set to 60c....I just seem to get the best efficiency when i adjust the ph to 5.3...doesn't really matter if it's accurate or not....

(in your defense though, my first ph meter was an auto calibrate one. and it died after a few uses. but with these nice manual calibration ones....)

edit: i have noticed it's gotten slow in it's old age, but it's still sharp....

 

[Yooper]

But any other reading suggestions are welcomed as well but I will start with what I have here now! Thanks again!

this is a pretty easy water primer:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/2017/11/19/brewing-water-basics-part-1/

it's in 3 parts, but shouldn't take long to look through.

 

[couchsending]

i have a Milwaukee MW-101, original probe....had it for years it never even loses calibration. lol, and i always just stick the probe into the mash with the dial for temp correction set to 60c....I just seem to get the best efficiency when i adjust the ph to 5.3...doesn't really matter if it's accurate or not....

(in your defense though, my first ph meter was an auto calibrate one. and it died after a few uses. but with these nice manual calibration ones....)

edit: i have noticed it's gotten slow in it's old age, but it's still sharp....

I have a 102 and get a new probe once a year. I’ve definitely had the probes go. They still calibrate but when they start to get slow I just don’t trust them. I brew a lot though so they don’t last as long time wise. I think I had maybe 84 batches last year. Check mash, sparge, final runnings, kettle full, @20, and KO and usually during fermentation a few times so it gets used a ton.

 

[bracconiere]

I have a 102 and get a new probe once a year. I’ve definitely had the probes go. They still calibrate but when they start to get slow I just don’t trust them. I brew a lot though so they don’t last as long time wise. I think I had maybe 84 batches last year. Check mash, sparge, final runnings, kettle full, @20, and KO and usually during fermentation a few times so it gets used a ton.

damn, 84 batches? so you brew every 3 days? lol, i'd say it's time to think about brewing bigger batches! i brew ~50 a year, but 10 gals at a time...