Low tech sweet non alcoholic cider

[dev731]

Hi,

some 10-15 years ago my father fermented apple juice into cider and it was kind of without any alcohol and sweet. How do I repeat that?

the process was like this:

juices from sweet apples were put into completely sealed aluminum container
pic in wikipedia

white sugar was added: 3 kg per each 10 liters of juice. Not sure if any water was added.

it stood in bathroom for lets say one month or some weeks(sealed), then he placed it in basement where it stood some more months(1-2). Temperature in basement is around 10-15 C degrees.

when opened it contained some fungus film on top of it, was clear, amber and somewhat sweet. Sediments at the bottom. Drinkable and didn't cause any noticeable alcohol intoxication. I drank ~0.5L at a time so would have notice it.

it stored well till spring when it was completely consumed. No noticeable degradation while in storage(and consumption at the same time)

what was it???

I'm not sure it was made from sweet apples, because sour apples were more available at that time.

 

[cgenebrewer]

if you take apple juice and sugar and allow yeast to get into it, they will eat and release ethanol. No way to avoid that.

Now, if your father did not allow yeast, but some other "bug" to do the eating, then its possible that they did some work without any ethanol waste, but I dont know what they would leave behind instead.

I have doubts that an apple sugar liquid that was allowed to sit an no yeast fermented it, especially if the juice was freshly pressed. He may have done some other step to remove the alcohol, it was not very alcoholic.

 

[cgenebrewer]

besides, half a liter(16 ounces) is little more than one beer, so I would say that it was in fact alcoholic, just very weak.

 

[dev731]

he never added any yeasts to ciders. They always fermented themselves.
He claims that if you use sweet apple juice then you get "juice", and if you use sour apples - you get "fruit wine". Besides, nearby old timers said smth like that too.

local sour apple variety

sweet apples thay may have been used have name like pippin, somewhat sweet but sour, hard flesh.

and I read some books from archive.org about cider. They also mention that if you use sweet apples, then you get sweet weak cider that doesn't store well.

 

[cgenebrewer]

if you crush the apples with the skins, the natural yeast on the skins will ferment it out. It is a technique some "modern" brewers still use at times, if they feel like it. Spontaneous fermentation I believe it is called.

The distinction from "juice" and "wine" could be from the fact that usually sour or non eating apples are used for making ciders, while the sweet ones we eat, and are not as good for ciders. he may have meant that if you want juice, use sweet ones, if you want to make wine, then use sour ones. But either apple can produce either beverage. "Juice" will be the apple liquid that is not fermented. cider or wine will be the juice that is.

 

[dev731]

I think sweet apple juice results in low alcohol cider, which is not made by anyone, because mostly everyone wants hard cider with alcohol content. I repeat that it didn't cause any noticeable alcohol effect. Ant it stored well till spring..

what was made was probably cider(fermented) because it was clear amber. Pasteurized(heated) and canned apple juice never clears(unless you add smth to it)

 

[Ninkasi70]

I think you must be from Russia, because I have a friend from Moscow who described that exact process to me a few weeks ago.

I was reading about the process for making cidre in Brittany, France. What you described is one of the tradition methods that is used there as well (according to what I read). They use the native yeasts that are on the apples instead of introducing yeasts, they use sour/tart apples, and they do a long, cold fermentation.

The amount of alcohol produced is relative to the sugar content in the fluid. The more sugar available, the higher the alcohol content. Tart apples would have less sugar to be converted to alcohol, so it would make sense for the final product to contain less alcohol at the end.

Pasteurized apple juice might be different where you live than in the US. I have used commercially pasteurized apple juice for all of my hard cider. It has always resulted in clear cider at the end.

 

[dev731]

former soviet union, anyway...

as I wrote, sugar was added 3kg/10L. If juice fermented, then how is it possible(if possible) that not all sugar was turned into alcohol?

other thing is that the container was completely sealled all the time, there were no any hoses to let carbon dioxide out. How is it that it was not bitter or smelly?

 

[cgenebrewer]

I am confused, because I am hearing two different things. First that it was fermented, then that it was not fermented.

The only way it did not ferment was that if no yeast or other bacteria was introduced. that would be very difficult considering there was yeast on the apples themselves, unless they were pasteurized, and also because it was opened repeatedly over the course a a few months.

I think that it fermented. 3 kg would be 6.6 lbs roughly. 10 liters is roughly 2.5 gallons.

Now, apfelwein,which is a STRONG cider, at about 8 percent abv, uses 2 lbs of sugar per 5 gallons.

So thats 13lbs of sugar for every 5 gallons. That is a huge amount. the natural yeast on the apples would not be able to handle all that alcohol, so it would be left tasting very sweet. But you would end up with an abv similar to wine.

Something jsut doesnt add up

 

[Tw0fish]

Here ya go!

Recipe Type: Extract
Yeast: None
Yeast Starter: no
Additional Yeast or Yeast Starter: no
Batch Size (Gallons): 5
Original Gravity: N/A
Final Gravity: N/a
IBU: N/a
Boiling Time (Minutes): N/A
Color: N/a
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): one month or some weeks (sealed)
Additional Fermentation: no
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): some more months (1-2)

That is to say, either we're being trolled or there is a language barrier of sorts.

In America, cider = pressed apples ..... juice = pressed apples with stuff filtered out

Theory 1.. Looking at the process, your *cider* did not ferment, and instead allowed the cider to become juice by storing it long enough to let the pectin fall out. Then again, if it went to around 3% abv you could drink half a liter and not really notice it but that 3% would still significant inhibit other stuff from growing, wouldn't it?

Theory 2.. The mold did something to it. Grody.

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

theory 2.. The mold did something to it. Grody.

haha!

 

[dev731]

Theory 2.. The mold did something to it. Grody.

mold on top of sherry(jerez) doesn't make it any worse
wikipedia Flor

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

This link says it's "sherry".

I think sherry is kind of grody also. Although my grandmother loves the stuff.

 

[woofyboo]

I think he had 2 preservatives goin for him. Too much sugar, and cold. Combined they created a hostile invironment for yeast.

Thats my theory anyway.
My grandma made juice with me and insisted on loading it with sugar. Stuff didnt ferment a single bubble in the 3 weeks it spent in the fridge