Lots of diacetyl, techniques for correcting?

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

boodyrischous

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
85
Reaction score
0
Location
Minneapolis, MN
My buddy and I made a Maibock. I think we did our diacetly rest too early, and then started lagering. It smelled and tasted good as it went into the secondary for lagering, but after two months, it smelled like butterscotch. We decided to keg it and let it sit at room temp, but not much of a change was noticeable. Behind the diacetyl, there is a delicious beer, but it is unfortunately obstructed. Does anybody have any good techniques for countering or helping to mask diacetyl? We are open to alternative ingredients that might work better with the butterscotch flavor (we know it will never be the Maibock we planned). Any suggestions?
 

Denny

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jun 4, 2005
Messages
5,544
Reaction score
1,072
Location
Eugene
Krausening is adding a qt. or 2 of actively fermenting wort to the beer. As said above, the yeast should metabolize the diacetyl. I've done it a couple times....it's kind of a pain, but it's pretty effective.
 

Cpt_Kirks

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2008
Messages
3,704
Reaction score
60
Location
Lakeland TN
I had that happen to an Amber Lager.

Made a nice starter with US-05 and pitched it in the keg. Let it sit at room temp for two weeks, then put it back into the kegerator (I would pull the pressure release and sniff every couple of days, until I no longer smelled butter).

The diacetyl went from overpowering to barely noticeable. It saved the batch.

:mug:
 

ohiobrewtus

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Messages
7,762
Reaction score
74
Location
Ohio
This doesn't help you now, but in the future you may want to think about doing a 90 minute boil when you are using large amounts of Pils (assuming that you did).
 

Cpt_Kirks

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2008
Messages
3,704
Reaction score
60
Location
Lakeland TN
This doesn't help you now, but in the future you may want to think about doing a 90 minute boil when you are using large amounts of Pils (assuming that you did).
I am about to go a brew with all Pils. Why does Pils need a 90 minute boil?

:confused:
 

PseudoChef

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
3,401
Reaction score
117
Location
West Chicago 'Burbs
I am about to go a brew with all Pils. Why does Pils need a 90 minute boil?

:confused:
Pils is the least kilned of all malts, and because it is not subject to long exposure to high temperatures, it contains more of a chemical called S-methylmethionine (SMM). As this chemical is subjected to a boil, it undergoes a reaction, turning it into dimethyl sulfoxide (DMS). Plainly stated, DMS tastes like cooked/canned corn or cooked vegetables, which isn't really good in lots of styles. 90 minutes is sufficient to whether the SMM half life, driving off the majority of the compound. Also, a rapid chill below 140dF is needed to stave off any ongoing SMM -> DMS conversion post-boil.

Other malts such as American 2-row, Marris Otter, etc are subject to longer/hotter kilning during the malting process, which effectively breaks down more of the SMM.
 

Cpt_Kirks

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2008
Messages
3,704
Reaction score
60
Location
Lakeland TN
Pils is the least kilned of all malts, and because it is not subject to long exposure to high temperatures, it contains more of a chemical called S-methylmethionine (SMM). As this chemical is subjected to a boil, it undergoes a reaction, turning it into dimethyl sulfoxide (DMS). Plainly stated, DMS tastes like cooked/canned corn or cooked vegetables, which isn't really good in lots of styles. 90 minutes is sufficient to whether the SMM half life, driving off the majority of the compound. Also, a rapid chill below 140dF is needed to stave off any ongoing SMM -> DMS conversion post-boil.

Other malts such as American 2-row, Marris Otter, etc are subject to longer/hotter kilning during the malting process, which effectively breaks down more of the SMM.
Does it need to be a roiling boil for the full 90? I am a propane cheapskate.

Does bittering hops utilization increase after 60 minutes? I have never done a longer than 60 minute boil.

Never had a problem with DMS, and don't want to start now.
 

batfishdog37

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2008
Messages
187
Reaction score
1
Location
Menomonie, Wisconsin
Does bittering hops utilization increase after 60 minutes? I have never done a longer than 60 minute boil.[/QUOTE]

I am no expert by any means, but, my understanding is that hop utilization does not increase in boils over 60 min. From what I've read, there is no further increase in bittering after 60 min. Someone correct me if I am wrong though. You could always boil for 30 min before adding hops, then boil the hops for the remaining 60 min, maybe this would work. Hope it helps:mug:
 

the_bird

10th-Level Beer Nerd
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
20,964
Reaction score
599
Location
Adams, MA
There's a modest increase in hops utilization for a 90 minute boil, but it's real small. If you're concerned about it, just add then thirty minutes in so that they still only boil for 60 minutes.
 
Top