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Looking for newer Cincinnati water report

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green_giant43

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Anybody have one of these done in like 2014 or (if you're on the ball) 2015?
I see there is a 2011 one on here but I'm looking for a more recent one to make sure my water settings are right. Just looking into finally tweaking my water to make my beers taste good/authentic/best they can.
 

progmac

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I have one from late 2013 if you're interested. Its from the main Cincinnati plant
 
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green_giant43

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Thank you guys. I am in Hamilton County and mainly brew either in Reading or OTR so the main plant is what I'm looking for (I think Miller covers both areas that I brew though the Bolton one would be good too.)
progmac, if you've got that, that'd be great.
 

progmac

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Thank you guys. I am in Hamilton County and mainly brew either in Reading or OTR so the main plant is what I'm looking for (I think Miller covers both areas that I brew though the Bolton one would be good too.)
progmac, if you've got that, that'd be great.
This was as of 12/2013

Cincinnati - Miller Plant

Ph 8.3
Sodium (NA) 29
Potassium (K) 3
Calcium (Ca) 38
Magnesium (Mg) 12
Total Hardness (CaCO3) 145
Sulfate (SO4-S) 24
Chloride (Cl) 32
Bicarbonate (HCO3) 105
Total Alkalinity (CaCo3) 96

Lately I've just been using it straight with about 4mL lactic acid added to the mash for most styles.
 

hafmpty

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Ph 8.3
Sodium (NA) 29
Potassium (K) 3
Calcium (Ca) 38
Magnesium (Mg) 12
Total Hardness (CaCO3) 145
Sulfate (SO4-S) 24
Chloride (Cl) 32
Bicarbonate (HCO3) 105
Total Alkalinity (CaCo3) 96
I posted a Feb. 2010 profile somewhere on HBT too. I would love to see an updated test too. The 2013 test is helpful. I also found this one from the Brewers Friend site. Don't know when it's from.

Cincinnati
Ca - 38
Mg - 10
Na -32
Cl - 34
SO4 - 78
Alkalinity as HCO3 -85
pH - 8

Here is my 02/2010 profile for reference:
Ca- 28
Mg - 8
Na - 23
Cl- 28
SO4 - 54
Alkalinity as HCO3 - 56
pH - 8.3
Total Hardness - 103

These three tests together show the water profile is fairly stable.
 
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green_giant43

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You guys are awesome. I'm sure I can get by with those 2013 tests. That should help. You guys use Ez Water or Bru'n Water? I find EZ to be much easier to use but I think in the end Bru'n will get me as close as possible to a good water profile. Still need to watch a youtube video on it though to explain it in depth.

ALso, progmac, looking at it- lactic acid or aciduated malt should be what we need most of. I think I might throw some gypsum into my IPA (to enhance the bitterness) but other than that, our water appears to be very nice for brewing.
 

hafmpty

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You guys are awesome. I'm sure I can get by with those 2013 tests. That should help. You guys use Ez Water or Bru'n Water? I find EZ to be much easier to use but I think in the end Bru'n will get me as close as possible to a good water profile. Still need to watch a youtube video on it though to explain it in depth.

ALso, progmac, looking at it- lactic acid or aciduated malt should be what we need most of. I think I might throw some gypsum into my IPA (to enhance the bitterness) but other than that, our water appears to be very nice for brewing.
I use Bru'n Water. I haven't used EZ Water for a year or more so I don't know the features it has now compared to Bru'n Water. Once you get your profile plugged in, from there it's pretty easy. Put in your grains for each batch, figure out how much strike water you'll use, how much sparge water you'll use (NOTE: I calculate how much sparge water will actually make it into the boil kettle because I add my sparge salts to the boil kettle not directly to the sparge water). After that choose a profile that matches what you're going for and adjust your salts.

Spend time reading the first tabs and take your time so you set it up correctly. After that, it's pretty simple.
 

jmward21

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Anybody have one of these done in like 2014 or (if you're on the ball) 2015?
I see there is a 2011 one on here but I'm looking for a more recent one to make sure my water settings are right. Just looking into finally tweaking my water to make my beers taste good/authentic/best they can.
I just attended a brewing class at Listermann (Hosted by the Bloatarians) and they discussed Cincinnati water. The only area in Cincinnati that he made a point to mention was Lockland/Reading. Their water has a higher pH then the rest of the city. You will need to lower the pH of the water. If not, you risk the grains releasing tannins during the mash/sparge.

By no means am I an expert. I only wanted to share the information that I recently learned.
 
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green_giant43

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I just attended a brewing class at Listermann (Hosted by the Bloatarians) and they discussed Cincinnati water. The only area in Cincinnati that he made a point to mention was Lockland/Reading. Their water has a higher pH then the rest of the city. You will need to lower the pH of the water. If not, you risk the grains releasing tannins during the mash/sparge.

By no means am I an expert. I only wanted to share the information that I recently learned.
I went to that too and I believe he said just lockland because of the chloramine. Is reading included? I thought it was running off of gcww.
 

hafmpty

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I just attended a brewing class at Listermann (Hosted by the Bloatarians) and they discussed Cincinnati water. The only area in Cincinnati that he made a point to mention was Lockland/Reading. Their water has a higher pH then the rest of the city. You will need to lower the pH of the water. If not, you risk the grains releasing tannins during the mash/sparge.

By no means am I an expert. I only wanted to share the information that I recently learned.
That's basically what I've heard too. Glad to see another Cincinnati brewer here on HBT. Are you a Bloatarian? If so I might know you. There are a couple others here too.
 

jmward21

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I thought he said both but I will ask and confirm. I just joined the BBL a couple weeks ago, but I haven't been to a meeting yet. I plan on going to national brew day at rivertown.
 

dave5155

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I found this one posted online and have been using it with Brun Water for about a year. The guy who posted it was in Silverton I believe. It was from March of 2014 and it is a Ward Labs report. Seems to be inline with the others that were posted.

PH 8.3
Total Dissolved Solids 223 ppm
Cations/Anions, me/L 3.4/3.7
Sodium, NA 26 ppm
Potassium, K 2 ppm
Calcium, a 30 ppm
Magnesium, MG 9 ppm
Total Hardness, CaCo3 113
Nitrate. NO3 3.5 ppm
Sulfate, So4 54 ppm
Chloride, Cl 37 ppm
Bicarbonate, HCO3 73 ppm
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 70 ppm
 

hafmpty

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I found this one posted online and have been using it with Brun Water for about a year. The guy who posted it was in Silverton I believe. It was from March of 2014 and it is a Ward Labs report. Seems to be inline with the others that were posted.

PH 8.3
Total Dissolved Solids 223 ppm
Cations/Anions, me/L 3.4/3.7
Sodium, NA 26 ppm
Potassium, K 2 ppm
Calcium, a 30 ppm
Magnesium, MG 9 ppm
Total Hardness, CaCo3 113
Nitrate. NO3 3.5 ppm
Sulfate, So4 54 ppm
Chloride, Cl 37 ppm
Bicarbonate, HCO3 73 ppm
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 70 ppm
I'm not sure what this means. Maybe some others can help me know. I was looking at the GCWW Coverage & Service Area Map PDF online HERE and Silverton looks like it's right in an area where they could either be part of the City of Cincinnati retail area or GCWW Retail Service Area. Would this matter as it concerns the ion concentrations? Is this the same water as I would get over in Price Hill near Delhi? Just trying to figure out which plant (Bolton or Miller) this water report would anylyzing?
 

dave5155

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I'm pretty sure it would be Miller. I'm on the west side as well. Cheviot area. All the water reports on this thread are pretty similar to each other. At some point you have just got to pick one and use it. Or send in a sample yourself. Using brun water with that report and a ph meter have been very consistant with what brun water says the ph of the mash should be.
 

beernbourbon

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I'm an east sider, but the same thought has crossed my mind, where does it make a discernible difference to my very untrained palate? I do nothing with my tap water. I watch my mash temps closely, I am careful with sanitation, I keep my pitching temps on the low side, I use temp control during fermentation....yet I still get that 'homebrew tang'...just slightly tho.... Is it something I'm not doing with my water? Because it seems to be consistent across all styles I brew.
Sorry don't mean to hijack, just curious, and we all have at least the one commonality here.
Good to see a few hometown crowd on here btw, hey all!
 

RiverCityBrewer

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I'm not sure what this means. Maybe some others can help me know. I was looking at the GCWW Coverage & Service Area Map PDF online HERE and Silverton looks like it's right in an area where they could either be part of the City of Cincinnati retail area or GCWW Retail Service Area. Would this matter as it concerns the ion concentrations? Is this the same water as I would get over in Price Hill near Delhi? Just trying to figure out which plant (Bolton or Miller) this water report would anylyzing?
Everything coming out of the Miller plant would be the same for almost all of Hamilton county, including Silverton. Reading produces its own water, and I don't know much about its profile... I believe Indian Hill does as well. The Bolton plant is so small in output comparison that it really only covers the northwest portion of Hamilton county, Colerain is pretty much the only area that gets water from both plants, depending on demand.
 

RiverCityBrewer

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I do all grain, 5 gallon at the moment but looking to start smaller batches to refine my process, test batches, etc. Also moving to Loveland (Clermont County part) this summer, assume it's the same up there.... Have to check that.
Loveland pulls from its own aquifers, so its profile would likely be similar to Bolton. Loveland also uses chlorine as its disinfectant, so no issues with chloramines there either. I would still run it through a carbon filter, though.
 
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Loveland pulls from its own aquifers, so its profile would likely be similar to Bolton. Loveland also uses chlorine as its disinfectant, so no issues with chloramines there either. I would still run it through a carbon filter, though.
We're working with a homeowner in loveland who is on City water, but has over 650 ppm TDS at the tap...
 

dave5155

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I've come across that water report from the water company before but it leaves out all ions that brewers are concerned with except for sulfate. Is chlorate the same as chloride?
 
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I've come across that water report from the water company before but it leaves out all ions that brewers are concerned with except for sulfate.
That's my thought every time a brewer brings a Ward's Lab report to us so we can treat their water!:)

Russ
 

mtnagel

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I just got these from the water works about a month ago.

Calcium (Ca) 45 mg/L (3/6/15)
Magnesium (Mg) 5 mg/L (3/6/15)
Sodium (Na) 24 mg/L (8/20/14)
Total Alkalinity (as CaCO3) 50 mg/L (3/25/15)
Sulfate (SO4) 72 mg/L (3/7/15)
Chloride (Cl) 44 mg/L (3/7/15)
Nitrate (as NO3 - N) 0.9 mg/L (3/6/15)

I did a Wards test a couple years ago and it was pretty close to the numbers I've gotten from the water works, so every 6 months or so, I just email them and use the new numbers in Bru'n Water.

I'm also a Bloatarian. I'm trying to get Martin the author of Bru'n Water to talk at a meeting about water chemistry. I think we have a date, but it's not locked yet, so I'll post when it is.
 

mtnagel

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So after posting those, I went back and realized I was using numbers I got back in August 2014. When I entered the newest numbers in a Bru'n Water sheet for an IPA I brewed last week, it drops the predicted pH down to 5.12 from 5.25. The actual measured pH was 5.29. Not sure what's going on there.

These are the numbers I'm using from August that seem to better predict the pH.

Calcium (Ca) 38 mg/L (8/8/14)
Magnesium (Mg) 10 mg/L (8/8/14)
Sodium (Na) 23.9 mg/L (4/23/14)
Total Alkalinity (as CaCO3) 85 mg/L
Sulfate (SO4) 72.4 mg/L (8/5/14)
Chloride (Cl) 30.4 mg/L (8/5/14)
Nitrate (as NO3 - N) 0.94 mg/L (6/3/14)

Looks like the lower alkalinity number in the newer numbers is what's driving down the predicted pH. I'd be curious to see what everyone is getting for predicted vs actual pH.
 
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green_giant43

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Just got an email from reading that their water comes from Cincinnati. Only lockland is separate.
 

BigPerm

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Just got an email from reading that their water comes from Cincinnati. Only lockland is separate.
Does anyone have a somewhat current report of Lockland water or, as a second option, from the Bolton plant?
 

jmward21

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Just got an email from reading that their water comes from Cincinnati. Only lockland is separate.
Thanks for confirming. I emailed the guy from he class and wasn't for sure, but said he thought Reading did use the same as Lockland. Since he wasn't sure, I didn't follow up with responding one way or another.
 

BigPerm

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The Bolton-specific numbers are included in the report I linked to above.

Russ

That report only has values for contaminants, not the ions we're interested in. Except sulfate, which says 0...
 

tgourley01

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Is it a crazy thought that our LBS's could supply brewing water, doing all the necessary magic?
I'm all for learning but seems like something the experts could do for some of us new brewers.
Tim
 

beernbourbon

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Is it a crazy thought that our LBS's could supply brewing water, doing all the necessary magic?

I'm all for learning but seems like something the experts could do for some of us new brewers.

Tim

I can't imagine toting around 8-9 gallons of water just so I don't have to add the minerals necessary for what I'm brewing. Nor could I imagine them storing/creating the water for all the different styles out there. Each has it's own water profile, starting with our base water, then adding different amounts of this or that, not to mention each brewers personal tweaks.
Now, I DO think you might be on to something in a slightly different direction. What about creating a set of mineral ingredients that would be the generic additions for some of the basic styles, based on our water. "You're making a stout? Ok, here's a package of the minerals you need to add."
Or even some of the more popular clones at the time. "Oh, it's a Zombie Dust clone? Here you go, these minerals added to 8.5 gallons of Cincy water will mimic what 3 Floyds uses."
Just some thoughts
 
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But every "supplement pack" would need to be tailored to what is in the base water - which is different for every customer/every city, and would have to be modified for the number of gallons of base water...
 

hafmpty

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But every "supplement pack" would need to be tailored to what is in the base water - which is different for every customer/every city, and would have to be modified for the number of gallons of base water...

There is already a company doing this. It's called AccuMash. You can look into them. They have a number of different water additions packets that you add to distilled water to make water designed for a few different styles of beer.
 

beernbourbon

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But every "supplement pack" would need to be tailored to what is in the base water - which is different for every customer/every city, and would have to be modified for the number of gallons of base water...

Every city, yes, but that's not what we're talking about, we're talking cut of Cincinnati water. Cincinnati Water Works has a very large distribution area, so most people served by Listermans, or Paradise, or any other LHBS within the metropolitan area would have the base water chemistry covered. I used to live in the city, but now I live in Loveland, which has their own base chemical make up, so it would be unreasonable for me to expect Listermans to carry a 'pack' specific to Loveland water, unless there would be a huge market for it.
Simple marketing principles apply to anything I say. Does it make good business sense to do any of this? Meh... My thought is no, or trust me, most of these LHBS owners would be all over it. Really just kind of an interesting point for discussion.

There is already a company doing this. It's called AccuMash. You can look into them. They have a number of different water additions packets that you add to distilled water to make water designed for a few different styles of beer.

Now THAT would be the way around it. I didn't even think of that. (Duh). But that makes even more sense. Me, I prefer to do it the old fashioned way, adjusting my own water per batch, as I bounce between one gallon test batches and five gallon brews, but to each their own, as with everything beer related. [emoji12]
 

hafmpty

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Me, I prefer to do it the old fashioned way, adjusting my own water per batch...

Same here. In my opinion water and adjusting water is something every brewer can and should understand a little bit. I'm far from a chemist but I can modify my water. It really isn't hard to do. You've just got to be willing to work a bit at understanding it. YouTube, forums like this, and a bit of trial and error goes a long way. Like home brewing in general and all-grain brewing more specifically...you can't expect to be the world's greatest brewer overnight and you can't expect it to be easy to brew great beer.

Learning water stuff for me started by downloading a copy of Bru'n Water and reading all the info especially in the first tab. Did I understand it? Not really. But you just keep slogging through it and stuff starts to click into place. The water book by Palmer and the Brew Strong episodes on water (they called it Water-gasm) honestly did vet little to help. There was (and still is) A LOT of fuzziness when it comes to water modification. That said...even though I don't have a perfect grasp of it like AJ DeLang or Kaminski or Palmer...I know enough to get me the results I'm shooting for and I know how to use the Bru'n Water spreadsheet to help.

So all that's to say...just dive in. Mess around with it. Tweak numbers mess with different hypothetical brews, etc.

One piece of advice is to start out using Martin's profiles. The yellow, amber, brown, and black profiles and the three types for each.
 

BrotherJames

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Does anyone have newer reports?

So far I can only find 2014 numbers from the Cincinnati Miller plant and 2011 numbers from the Cincinnati Bolton plant.

(I need both because I sometimes brew up north with my friends in West Chester, and they get their water from Bolton. And make no mistake, 9.0pH is no misprint. That's what's coming out of Bolton. I just tested again it last night. It always surprises me.)
 
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