Looking for input on a "New World" Pilsner recipe

[saltymirv]

I'm working on a variation of the classic Pilsner with some "new world" hops, Motueka and Sorachi Ace. Moteuka and Sorachi are both cousins of saaz, with some spicy notes combined with citrus. Another change from a traditional pilsner is I wanted to use wheat (because I like brewing with it). Anyway, here's the planned recipe:

OG: 1.050
FG: 1.013
ABV: 4.9%
IBU: 40.6

Grain:
6.5lbs Bohemian floor malted pils (weyermann)
2.5lbs White wheat malt
1lb Vienna 3srm (weyermann)
.2lb Honey Malt (gambrinus)

Hops:
.5oz Moteuka 60 min
.5oz Motueka 20 min
.5oz Sorachi Ace 20 min
.5oz Motueka 5 min
.5oz Sorachi Ace 5 min

Mash:
BIAB step mash with a decoction (say what?)
Dough in at 122F - 20 minute rest
Infuse with ~8 qt near boiling water to get to 145F - 40 minute rest
Decoct ~8qt thick mash and slowly bring to boil
Add enough decoction (~4qt) to get mash to 154F - 5 minute rest
Add remaining decoction for a rest ~162F - 20 minute rest
Pull and drain bag

Water:
Municipal water (soft) treated with campden
"Yellow Bitter" water profile in Bru'N'Water
Mash pH adjusted to 5.3 with salts/lactic acid

Fermentation:
WLP029 with 2L starter (probably blasphemy in a pilsner, but this is a "pilsner")
Pitch at ~58-60F, let it go for 2 weeks. Diacetyl rest for a couple days then cold crash/gelatin for a week or so. Then off to a keg

I have the ability to lager, but I've got 029 in the fridge so I might as well use it.

 

[passedpawn]

That beer might be the best tasting beer in the world, but it will be no pilsner. The entire idea of a pilsner is to use very lightly kilned malt, combined with neutral hop, to make a crisp balanced beer. Honey malt and wheat and and sorachi ace won't get you there.

Don't hate me. Your beer looks very tasty, I'd be the first in line, but it's a boy named sue.

 

[saltymirv]

That beer might be the best tasting beer in the world, but it will be no pilsner. The entire idea of a pilsner is to use very lightly kilned malt, combined with neutral hop, to make a crisp balanced beer. Honey malt and wheat and and sorachi ace won't get you there.

Don't hate me. Your beer looks very tasty, I'd be the first in line, but it's a boy named sue.

Thanks for the input. What style would you call it? What you describe is what I'm going for: lightly colored, crisp, and balanced. It's definitely not in IPL territory

 

[passedpawn]

Thanks for the input. What style would you call it? What you describe is what I'm going for: lightly colored, crisp, and balanced. It's definitely not in IPL territory

I'd call it a wheat beer. I'd say with the wheat and honey malt, and the kolsch yeast, it will have a sweetish finish. Not sure where the hops will take it. If you wanted to have it judged, and probably you should consider that, call it an American wheat beer.

I think it looks very good, but certainly not a pilsner. Man I've made some pilsners pal, I can tell you!

 

[BigMack]

Agreed, not a Pilsner but it looks tasty. Don't worry about putting it in a category perfectly unless you're brewing for a competition. Brew what sounds good!

 

[saltymirv]

I'd call it a wheat beer. I'd say with the wheat and honey malt, and the kolsch yeast, it will have a sweetish finish. Not sure where the hops will take it. If you wanted to have it judged, and probably you should consider that, call it an American wheat beer.

I think it looks very good, but certainly not a pilsner. Man I've made some pilsners pal, I can tell you!

I never would've thought of that, thanks. Doing it as a wheat beer makes me want to ferment it with Conan for a little haze and esters to complement the hops

 

[Casedeville]

Have you brewed with Sorachi Ace before? It's a weird hop, in my experience. I used it a couple times and it always gave a strange dill flavor to the beer. Maybe it comes through when too much is used or combined with other hops or yeasts, so maybe in lower percentages it will be ok.

If you want a pilsner, this recipe looks like it'll disappoint your expectations. It'll probably taste like a hoppy blonde ale if the Sorachi Ace behaves. Not that it's a problem because, hey, we're homebrewers and we do what we want!

 

[saltymirv]

Have you brewed with Sorachi Ace before? It's a weird hop, in my experience. I used it a couple times and it always gave a strange dill flavor to the beer. Maybe it comes through when too much is used or combined with other hops or yeasts, so maybe in lower percentages it will be ok.

If you want a pilsner, this recipe looks like it'll disappoint your expectations. It'll probably taste like a hoppy blonde ale if the Sorachi Ace behaves. Not that it's a problem because, hey, we're homebrewers and we do what we want!

I have and I've used it with Motueka before too; I get a nice lemon/lime combo from them.

I guess my "pilsner" idea is out, but I'm still going to make it :rockin:

 

[ba-brewer]

I'd say brew it as you have it if those are the flavors you are seeking and dont worry about what category it is suppose to be.

I'd call it a wheat beer. I'd say with the wheat and honey malt, and the kolsch yeast, it will have a sweetish finish. Not sure where the hops will take it. If you wanted to have it judged, and probably you should consider that, call it an American wheat beer.

Maybe a bit too hoppy for a American Wheat for contest purposes. Might also want to drop the vienna and add more wheat if you were trying to enter American wheat so the wheat flavor comes through better.