Longest Hopstand

[Barley_Bob]

So, I tried brewing on a weeknight the other day, which didn't go super great. I mean, my mash and everything turned out fine, but it took forever! By the time my boil ended, it was 11:30pm, and I get up for work at 5:40am. In dire need of sleep, I let the batch cool for 20minutes, and then I just pitched it into primary with my final hop addition and left it outside overnight. I've never dumped to primary that hot before, but I am notorious for leaving batched to sit without yeast for extended periods of time (see the confessions thread).

Anyway, my hopstand must have lasted several hours. I would guess the temp was between 180-200 when I moved it and added the hops, and it would have taken a very long time for that temp to drop even below 150. So, what's the longest anyone has tried a hopstand? How did that turn out? I'm not worried about my batch. I'm just curious.

 

[schematix]

what are you fermenting in?

 

[Singletrack]

1-1/2 hours. Turned out very good. It was a bitter beer anyway, so I was not concerned about adding bitterness.

 

[Barley_Bob]

what are you fermenting in?

The 'ol plastic bucket. But before you jump all over me, there's a thread somewhere about pouring near boiling wort into a Culligan water jug and saving it for extended periods of time before fermenting. Apparently, it's a solid technique.

 

[Barley_Bob]

1-1/2 hours. Turned out very good. It was a bitter beer anyway, so I was not concerned about adding bitterness.

This is an IPA, so I'm not worried either.

 

[kh54s10]

For me, about 1/2 hour while the wort cooled then more cooling with my immersion coil... into the fermenter and pitching the yeast.

 

[Bilbo1usa]

I just let one go for an hour and a half, my longest.
Usually I do 30 mins.

Marris Oter Columbus SMaSH, with a similar story to yours.
Long brewday, wifey called me in for dinner right at the beginning of the hopstand.
I hit 180 and left 'em soaking while we ate and drank.

After the long soak I chilled it quickly and pitched.
Bottling tomorrow, so I don't even know how it will taste yet.

 

[FatDragon]

You just did a no-chill beer. People do it all the time. You'll get more utilization from your hops than intended, but since your wort was already chilled a bit when you tossed in the hops, you shouldn't get a ton of extra bitterness from the long hopstand. It'll be great!

 

[Calder]

I like to go at least an hour. I'd like to try longer, but it just gets too long.

I find I get more from the hops at an hour than I do from 30 minutes.

I think you are good. I hope you report back your results.

 

[Barley_Bob]

Mine are usually around 30 minutes too, and it sounds like some have done much longer hopstands. What I'm hearing is that it may be a little more bitter and the hops may be a little stronger, but probably not a ton more intense. Most of the change is done in that first 30 minutes or so.

During the winter months, I tend to let nature do most of my chilling, so I may have a couple of these ahead. I'll report back and let you all know how it turns out, especially if the result is widely different than expected. I can say that it smells fantastic. I haven't done an IPA in a while, but by my memory, this smells more juicy and hoppy than usual. I did do a couple of other things different too, so it's hard to tell right now what's making the difference, but it's there.

 

[ThreeSheetz]

After moving to the no chill method (post boil, putting the brew kettle lid on and letting the wort cool over night) my hopstands have been 8 to 12 hours depending on when I pitch the yeast next day.
I use a low limit temperature alarm in the brew kettle during inital cool down to notify me when the wort is below isomerization temps and then usually around 178* F I add the flavor and aroma hops. The result is AMAZING. Great flavor and aroma without super bitter beer. I have found you need to add more hops with this method though. I’m starting to gravitate toward 2 ounces of each type of finishing hop the recipe calls for during the hopstand period.
Non conventional I know, but it does work.

 

[beekeeperman]

Looks like todays brewing of a 5.5 gal. galaxy extra pale ale (extract kit) is going to sit on the hopstand until the outside air (30 F) cools it enough to dump in the plastic fermenter bucket.
Temp is dropping pretty quick with the late extract addition and some top off water.
140* 1 hr after flameout . I did 2 after flameout addition of hops ,1 oz ea and have 2 ozs left for dry hopping. 1/2 oz of magnum was added for 60 mins bittering plus another oz of galaxy at 15 mins.

New to hopstanding so looking forward to trying this .
Thinking just leave the cover off the kettle till transferring to fermenter in a few hours ?, no bugs or wild yeast floating around at these temps and will cool quicker.
Interesting thread .this link was posted here earlier this year about hopstands

https://byo.com/hops/item/2808-hop-stands

edit: 4 hrs after flameout wort is 90* , outside temp still 30* At that rate i could pitch yeast in a couple more hours

 

[2005STi]

I just brewed an APA this past Sunday w/o any kettle hops and 3oz in an 80 minute hop stand. I'm going to dry hop with 2.75 oz probably tomorrow pending a gravity reading. Will post results.

O.G. 1.054
1oz citra
1oz simcoe
0.5oz centennial
0.25oz summit
0.25oz chinook @ flameout

DH
1oz Citra
1oz Simcoe
0.5oz Centennial
0.25oz Summit

 

[Bilbo1usa]

Wow!
That's an interesting way to go; no kettle and all final additions.
I'm very curious how it comes out.

Seems like there may not be any substantial bitterness, could this be true?

 

[2005STi]

Wow!
That's an interesting way to go; no kettle and all final additions.
I'm very curious how it comes out.

Seems like there may not be any substantial bitterness, could this be true?

Update: Pulled a gravity sample last night (4 days after flameout) and it tastes and smells wonderful. Gravity was at 1.020 so there's still some time before dry hopping but I enjoyed every bit of that hydrometer sample. I can't believe how great this tasted for a 4 day old beer.

It was hard to give an idea on bitterness right now since it was warm and flat. Without that carbonic sharpness, I feel like all beers taste low on bitterness.

I raised the temp up a few degrees to encourage it to finish out in the next day or so, so I can DH and drink this one!

 

[m00ps]

I would be more worried about putting near boiling water into a fermentor. Glass could crack from shock but plastic may leach out or even deform at those temps.

 

[ThreeSheetz]

It was hard to give an idea on bitterness right now since it was warm and flat.

If it turns out your beer *is* low on bitterness, what works for me is to calculate the total bitterness I want, then use a hop sock/bag during 60 minutes of the boil. Remove the bittering hops at the end of the boil and proceed with your hop stand as before.
Its' hard to get good bitterness without boiling the bittering hop. The hop oils need to isomorize to add bitterness. And that's why one waits until after the wort temps are below isomorization levels before adding the flavor and aroma hops. Or in your case maybe you only want to hopstand the flavor hop and dry hop the aroma hops.

 

[njviking]

due to an error in my scheduling I did a semi controlled hopstand for 4.5 hours resulting in a fine beer. wasn't fantastic, but was fine.

Started the stand at 180 and by the time I got back around to it the temps had dropped to 145ish.

It smelled a little astringent when I transferred it but let it go for 3 weeks in the primary then kegged. Let it carb up for a week and tasted fine.

 

[2005STi]

I would be more worried about putting near boiling water into a fermentor. Glass could crack from shock but plastic may leach out or even deform at those temps.

I don't think anyone was speaking about transferring hot to the fermentor

These hop stands are completed then the cooling to pitching temps begin followed by transferring to the fermentor.

 

[m00ps]

I don't think anyone was speaking about transferring hot to the fermentor

These hop stands are completed then the cooling to pitching temps begin followed by transferring to the fermentor.

Maybe I misunderstood the OP

In dire need of sleep, I let the batch cool for 20minutes, and then I just pitched it into primary with my final hop addition and left it outside overnight. I've never dumped to primary that hot before

I would guess the temp was between 180-200 when I moved it and added the hops.

 

[2005STi]

Maybe I misunderstood the OP

Oh wow, no you didn't misunderstand them. I had forgotten the OPs post and was side tracked on hop stand duration discussion.

Yeah I'm with you, unless you preheated your glass carboy with hot water (I have no idea how you'd do this? Stepping the water temp up gradually??) you run the big risk of cracking the carboy. And better bottles are rated for up to 140°F IIRC.

 

[Barley_Bob]

Yeah, I just dumped it right into the old brew pail. All I can tell you about that at this point is that it kept its shape. I'm really not worried about it, but who knows? I'm overdue to bottle, and I'll hopefully get it done tomorrow. I'll let you guys know if I detect any hint of plastic.

I will also let you know how bomb those hops are! Which is what everyone really wants to know. Compared to that, who cares how much plastic I ingest?

 

[Barley_Bob]

Well, I bottled this beer yesterday, and the hops are off the chain! I cracked the fermenter, and my kitchen was just flooded with hops. No plastic in the taste or smell. Well, see how it finishes in a couple of weeks. It's hard to say much now, but it seems promising.

 

[beekeeperman]

Looks like todays brewing of a 5.5 gal. galaxy extra pale ale (extract kit) is going to sit on the hopstand until the outside air (30 F) cools it enough to dump in the plastic fermenter bucket.
Temp is dropping pretty quick with the late extract addition and some top off water.
140* 1 hr after flameout . I did 2 after flameout addition of hops ,1 oz ea and have 2 ozs left for dry hopping. 1/2 oz of magnum was added for 60 mins bittering plus another oz of galaxy at 15 mins.

New to hopstanding so looking forward to trying this .
Thinking just leave the cover off the kettle till transferring to fermenter in a few hours ?, no bugs or wild yeast floating around at these temps and will cool quicker.
Interesting thread .this link was posted here earlier this year about hopstands

https://byo.com/hops/item/2808-hop-stands

edit: 4 hrs after flameout wort is 90* , outside temp still 30* At that rate i could pitch yeast in a couple more hours

So it was 8.5 hrs. later before wort reached pitching temp.
Bottled yesterday after 2 weeks in primary and it tasted very good right out of the bottling bucket. So good i drank two pints of it.

 

[Barley_Bob]

I realize I let this thread die, but my conscience has been nagging me to come back and resolve it so that future brewers may benefit.

This batch didn't turn out as I had hoped for other reasons (water), but the hop aroma was insane. When I transferred from fermenter to bottling bucket, my whole kitchen erupted in hops. So, even though the batch wasn't as hoped, the hops were amazing. This has since become my standard practice (more or less), and I let nature do the work while my brew soaks up all the sweet sweet hoppy goodness. At this point, I wouldn't even consider a 30 minute hopstand. There's just no reason not to let it go as long as possible.

 

[Queequeg]

I did a 45 min stand yesterday, I put the pump on recir. to increase extraction rates though. I simply can't waiting 90 mins at the end of a already long brewday.

Pump + stirring+ a massive dose of hops = good extraction.

 

[Barley_Bob]

I did a 45 min stand yesterday, I put the pump on recir. to increase extraction rates though. I simply can't waiting 90 mins at the end of a already long brewday.

Pump + stirring+ a massive dose of hops = good extraction.

I'm sure you're right and I won't argue.

I would note, however, that my brew day is over when I begin my hopstand, because it's all taking place in my fermentation bucket with the lid on. I don't do anything else until I wander outside in my boxers the next morning.

Also, I personally wouldn't spend the money on a pump. I'm sure they work great, but my goal is to brew cheaply and easily. If I can get the same effect (or nearly the same effect) by not spending the money or effort, that's the choice I'm going to make.

It all comes down to personal preference. There's lots of ways to make great beer, and I'm sharing what works for me.

 

[Yooper]

I realize I let this thread die, but my conscience has been nagging me to come back and resolve it so that future brewers may benefit.

This batch didn't turn out as I had hoped for other reasons (water), but the hop aroma was insane. When I transferred from fermenter to bottling bucket, my whole kitchen erupted in hops. So, even though the batch wasn't as hoped, the hops were amazing. This has since become my standard practice (more or less), and I let nature do the work while my brew soaks up all the sweet sweet hoppy goodness. At this point, I wouldn't even consider a 30 minute hopstand. There's just no reason not to let it go as long as possible.

Haha- I just did my first no-chill, long hop stand beer myself.

I brewed it, and somehow a bag ripped and the whole hops clogged up my entire system- pump, diptube, chiller, etc. I had already added the flameout hops, but it was over 200 degrees and wasn't' going to get any cooler any time soon. So I siphoned to the fermenters (it was an 11 gallon batch), and then spent a couple of hours cleaning out my pump, diptube, chillers, etc.

I pitched the next day at 64 degrees.

Oh, my gosh- this beer is so awesome! I will never be able to screw up enough again to recreate it, but it's one of the best IPAs I ever made.

It was supposed to be a clone of Deschute's Fresh Squeezed, but on brewday I found out I didn't have enough US two-row, so subbed about 1/2 maris otter, and of course did a no-chill which I thought would make it way too bitter, and kill my hops flavor and aroma.

All of these things helped me make one of my best IPAs, ever.

Go figure!

 

[Singletrack]

I had already added the flameout hops, but it was over 200 degrees and wasn't' going to get any cooler any time soon. So I siphoned to the fermenters (it was an 11 gallon batch), and then spent a couple of hours cleaning out my pump, diptube,

Where was the hop stand? Did you add more hops to the fermenter?

 

[m00ps]

@Barley_Bob

There are a number of people that no-chill and Im pretty sure they dont remove the hops, but they usually cool it down in their kettle and then transfer the next morning to a fermentor.

I'd still be a bit wary of adding +200F wort to a plastic bucket. I would be surprised if there wasnt a bit of deformation at those temps. If I had to no-chill in a bucket, I would leave it for an hour to cool to the mid 100s or so to be sure

I've done a lot of long hopstands. I've never got any grassy off flavors that I can attribute to the hopstand. If you add them at flameout and keep the temperature stable, maybe thats why people are getting bad results. You are nearly boiling them for another 30min or more

My routine is a large addition at flameout, recirculate (or stir periodically) and let it naturally cool. I'll add more 20-30min later, keeping the flameout addition in, and let that sit another 20-30min before chilling to pitching temps and transferring

 

[Queequeg]

@Barley_Bob

There are a number of people that no-chill and Im pretty sure they dont remove the hops, but they usually cool it down in their kettle and then transfer the next morning to a fermentor.

I'd still be a bit wary of adding +200F wort to a plastic bucket. I would be surprised if there wasnt a bit of deformation at those temps. If I had to no-chill in a bucket, I would leave it for an hour to cool to the mid 100s or so to be sure

I've done a lot of long hopstands. I've never got any grassy off flavors that I can attribute to the hopstand. If you add them at flameout and keep the temperature stable, maybe thats why people are getting bad results. You are nearly boiling them for another 30min or more

My routine is a large addition at flameout, recirculate (or stir periodically) and let it naturally cool. I'll add more 20-30min later, keeping the flameout addition in, and let that sit another 20-30min before chilling to pitching temps and transferring

Moops why the two additions and why one at knock out and the other after temperature drop?

 

[DemonsRun]

I usually do a 45 Min hopstand at 170F (recirculating and holding 170F). I think even though just below isomerization I still get some bitterness but I honestly can't tell.

 

[Singletrack]

Moops why the two additions and why one at knock out and the other after temperature drop?

Clearly, @Moops is afraid of bitterness.

 

[milldoggy]

@Barley_Bob

There are a number of people that no-chill and Im pretty sure they dont remove the hops, but they usually cool it down in their kettle and then transfer the next morning to a fermentor.

I'd still be a bit wary of adding +200F wort to a plastic bucket. I would be surprised if there wasnt a bit of deformation at those temps. If I had to no-chill in a bucket, I would leave it for an hour to cool to the mid 100s or so to be sure

I've done a lot of long hopstands. I've never got any grassy off flavors that I can attribute to the hopstand. If you add them at flameout and keep the temperature stable, maybe thats why people are getting bad results. You are nearly boiling them for another 30min or more

My routine is a large addition at flameout, recirculate (or stir periodically) and let it naturally cool. I'll add more 20-30min later, keeping the flameout addition in, and let that sit another 20-30min before chilling to pitching temps and transferring

Got me thinking, what about transferring to another kettle, like an 80qt ss Concord. That way you could clean you bk and still no chill Heck, rig a gasket on the lid and ferment in it.

 

[m00ps]

Moops why the two additions and why one at knock out and the other after temperature drop?

I try to make my IPAs with as much hop character as possible, but to also pick up as little bitterness as I can along the way. In the end, Im usually using +1lbs per 5gal batch and it definitely comes in less bitter than most commercial IPAs

I prefer to get most of my bitterness from the hopstand. I figure a flameout addition while letting it slowly cool will pull out some amount of IBUs. How much is debatable and dependant on your system. I'll add the next hopstand addition around 180-170F where it seems to be a consensus that the delicate hop compounds are no longer volatile. I figure that I get a bit less flavor and keep more aroma from this addition. I think of it as an intermediate between a flameout and dry hop addition

anyway, that's just what works for me. If Im going super heavy on hops, i've stopped adding a 60min addition altogether and opt for a 20min addition instead to account for the large hopstand

 

[Barley_Bob]

Haha- I just did my first no-chill, long hop stand beer myself.

I brewed it, and somehow a bag ripped and the whole hops clogged up my entire system- pump, diptube, chiller, etc. I had already added the flameout hops, but it was over 200 degrees and wasn't' going to get any cooler any time soon. So I siphoned to the fermenters (it was an 11 gallon batch), and then spent a couple of hours cleaning out my pump, diptube, chillers, etc.

I pitched the next day at 64 degrees.

Oh, my gosh- this beer is so awesome! I will never be able to screw up enough again to recreate it, but it's one of the best IPAs I ever made.

It was supposed to be a clone of Deschute's Fresh Squeezed, but on brewday I found out I didn't have enough US two-row, so subbed about 1/2 maris otter, and of course did a no-chill which I thought would make it way too bitter, and kill my hops flavor and aroma.

All of these things helped me make one of my best IPAs, ever.

Go figure!

Ha! It's amazing what kind of good a mistake can make. One of the best I ever brew had, like, a 6 hour mash. I haven't quite managed to recreate that beer... one of these days I will. Maybe.

I've been doing the overnight chill for a couple of years. I used to start the cool down in the kettle, then switch it to the fermenter at ~90F, and pitch in the morning. It's so, so easy, especially in the winter when my outdoor faucet is frozen. No muss, no fuss - just put the lid on and walk away.

@Barley_Bob

There are a number of people that no-chill and Im pretty sure they dont remove the hops, but they usually cool it down in their kettle and then transfer the next morning to a fermentor.

I'd still be a bit wary of adding +200F wort to a plastic bucket. I would be surprised if there wasnt a bit of deformation at those temps. If I had to no-chill in a bucket, I would leave it for an hour to cool to the mid 100s or so to be sure

I've done a lot of long hopstands. I've never got any grassy off flavors that I can attribute to the hopstand. If you add them at flameout and keep the temperature stable, maybe thats why people are getting bad results. You are nearly boiling them for another 30min or more

My routine is a large addition at flameout, recirculate (or stir periodically) and let it naturally cool. I'll add more 20-30min later, keeping the flameout addition in, and let that sit another 20-30min before chilling to pitching temps and transferring

What I'm doing now is to have my topoff water chilled and ready (switched to RO, which makes this easy). I pour my hot ~200F wort into the brew bucket and then immediately top of with cool water. This brings it down to 170-180F immediately. I toss in my whirlpool addition - done. So, it's not really sitting at 200F for an extended period of time.

Now that it's summer, I suppose I'll have to change this up a little. It's going to be challenging getting it down where it's supposed to be when it's over 90F. I suppose I can chill my top off water more, but that'll only do so much. I also worry a little about having an open container of wort in the summer, when who-knows-what is floating around. Anyway, all of this is manageable and the principles stay the same.


At the end of the day, I really think this is the best way to get the most out of your whirlpool addition with the least possible effort and financial investment.

 

[Queequeg]

I try to make my IPAs with as much hop character as possible, but to also pick up as little bitterness as I can along the way. In the end, Im usually using +1lbs per 5gal batch and it definitely comes in less bitter than most commercial IPAs

I prefer to get most of my bitterness from the hopstand. I figure a flameout addition while letting it slowly cool will pull out some amount of IBUs. How much is debatable and dependant on your system. I'll add the next hopstand addition around 180-170F where it seems to be a consensus that the delicate hop compounds are no longer volatile. I figure that I get a bit less flavor and keep more aroma from this addition. I think of it as an intermediate between a flameout and dry hop addition

anyway, that's just what works for me. If Im going super heavy on hops, i've stopped adding a 60min addition altogether and opt for a 20min addition instead to account for the large hopstand

Thanks moops. My most recent brew had a 60 min addition, a 10 min addition (1oz) and a hop stand (6oz)at 156F for 45 mins. I will be dry hopping with 8oz. Its a 6.5 gallon batch. I find i get mostly flavour from my stand.