London Bochet

[DanielLukes]

London Bochet (Recipe help needed!)

I am relatively new to mead making. I’ve made JAOM (of course), I have a gallon of vanilla bochet bulk ageing and have produced several low-alcohol, (and rather thin&#8230 heather meads.

I’ve so far been very impressed by how nice mead is, but there seems to be something of an image problem in the UK, where it is either not known or known only through those horrible honey flavoured white wines that are marketed as mead.

There is a thriving (and I mean THRIVING) craft ale scene here in London full of adventurous young people willing to try whatever’s on tap this week. Surely to treat mead like an easy-drinking ale or cider rather than a fine wine is a better way to go?

So, my mission is to develop great, low alcohol mead that is ale-like enough to tap into the craft beer market, but still has the unique, honey taste which will help mead stand out as a separate category in the public mind. If it is the drinker’s first ever mead, I want it to be something that they will want to try again and not just a novelty drink.

I want it to be:

• Dark in colour, hearty in flavour, like a good London ale.
• Eventually served out of casks like real ale.
• A true mead. (NOT a braggot/metheglyn/cyser etc&#8230
• Low in alcohol. (3-7%)

After a few little experiments, here is my proposed recipe for 1gal of my London Bochet to use as a starting point for further development:

• 2/3rd of a pound - Paynes Blossom Honey
• 1/3rd of a pound - Paynes Orange Blossom Honey
• Tap water (the tap water is relatively good here in South London).
• 2 bags - English Breakfast Tea (for body, to make up for the low honey content.)

1. Take the blossom honey and boil in a saucepan until a deep red colour.
2. Transfer half of the honey to another saucepan and slowly add a couple of pints of boiling water and dissolve. Simmer gently.
3. Continue boiling the rest of the honey until near-black.
4. Pour the honey/water mixture into the pan with the black honey and dissolve all of the honey. Pour in another two pints of boiling water.
5. Add two tea bags and simmer the mixture for 10 minutes.
6. Remove the tea bags and take off the heat.
7. When cool, pour into demijohn with the orange blossom honey and top up with cold tap water.
8. Shake vigorously and pitch with ale yeast.
9. Rack into new demijohn at 4 days using siphon with racking cane.
10. Ferment till clear & dry. (Approx. 2-3 weeks)
11. Add 1tsp of honey to the bottom of 8 500ml Grolsch bottles and siphon mead into bottles.
12. Leave to bottle condition for a few days.
13. Drink!

Can somebody please help me to figure out:

- A better way to achieve a full body at low alcohol levels without using tea (it just seems unprofessional doesn’t it&#8230 or maybe recommend a good tea to use if it’s really the best way. It would be nice to use as few ingredients as possible.

- How to modify the recipe for serving on draught at a larger scale, (hopefully unfiltered and still live, as in real ale). I know very little about how cask beers/ciders are made so any advice would be really great.

- What the best yeast is for this kind of mead. I am using ale yeast because it is fast and ferments well at room temperature. I have heard that lager yeast also works well (Gosnells Meadery in London uses it for their light, low alcohol mead) and might produce a crisper taste?

- Any other recipe tips please!

 

[Arpolis]

Here is a light bochet that I was extremely impressed with along with many family members. You can drop the OG down to 1.050 and it should have plenty of body and not be too thin with an 8% ABV. As long as you back sweeten up to 1.010.

Orange blossom honey (to a gravity of 1.060 so just over 1.5lb)
3/4 tsp potassium bicarbonate
2 tsp yeast nutrient
Water to 1 gallon
Yeast (Lalvin 71b)

I caremilized all the just to the point where it was turning dark. No blackening at all. Took about 1.25 hours and I kept the honey thin with water 1:1. The yeast nutrient was split into 3 additions added over the first week and I degassed daily if not twice daily for the first week.


I actually back sweetened to 1.014 ish and let it self carbonate. The mead was citrusy, had notes of apples and a little caremilized flavor in the back ground & the definite mead flavor kick we all love. Super smooth on the alcohol at 30 days but excellent at 3 months.

I am experimenting with London ESB 1968 yeast in a bochet and I blackened that honey to see if I can ramp up the fruity notes from the yeast to compliment the burnt honey. Just at 30 days into that with pretty much the same recipe as above lack some vanilla and oak added, that yeast is adding Mellon type fruit notes and seems to do well.

 

[DanielLukes]

Thanks for this, I'll try some of these in my experiments.

Just a couple of questions:

-Given that it was caramelised, did the orange blossom flavour still come through or would you say the same results are possible with a cheaper honey? All the advice I've had so far is that when making a bochet, it's not worth using expensive honeys.

-What would you say the colour was like on these meads?

Thanks!

 

[Arpolis]

The orange blossom did show through!!! The trick is just to slightly carmelize the honey to get some added complexity. It had that unique citrusy flavor a traditional orange blossom mead has. I actually did an identical traditional OB mead beside the bochet for comparison. Now there was absolutely no OB aroma left. It smelled more like a toffee. The color was slightly darker than the traditional but just like a golden straw color.

 

[DanielLukes]

I see, sounds like one to try!
For this, I'm looking for a dark ruby sort of colour and a lower ABV in the ale sort of range.

Do you think it's possible?


All you need is mead

 

[Arpolis]

I found just a little bit of the light bochet in the back of my fridge in a wine bottle. This is the very last of my last batch but enough to give you an idea of color:



To get that deep ruby red you get when shining a light through a carboy of dark bochet will be hard to get if your OG is much lower than 1.050. But you can get darker than the above I bet. But by how much I have no idea. Maybe a fruit addition to add some color or red hibiscus flowers. Actually as I type this red hibiscus or Jamaica tea oils add some deep red and that is citrusy like OB mead and should compliment it well.

 

[DanielLukes]

Yes I was worried that it would be difficult to achieve at such a low OG...
Do you think those ingredients would add body as well as colour and thus negate the need for tea bags? (I really want to remove them from this recipe as soon as I get a chance...)
And would they be subtle enough in flavour to be a 'secret ingredient' that would be hard to guess at?

Hope you enjoyed that glass, looks wonderful!



All you need is mead

 

[DanielLukes]

By the way, this is one of my experiments with roughly 1pound of honey (before burning).

It's about 1 week in - hopefully it will keep its darkness when it drops clear!



All you need is mead

 

[Arpolis]

I have not used Jamaica tea before but have used a cold hardy hibiscus that grows like a weed here in Oklahoma. (Rose of Sharon) It is similar in flavor but more subtle (I have read) but it is also used as a natural ingredient in thickening soups. I used it in a raspberry mead and it helped retain a deep red color and added lots of silky smooth body. So I do not know for sure if tropical hibiscus is the same but you could probably get a 1lb bag online for super cheap and just make the tea and see what you think. Unless you can get your hands on rose of Sharon petals/flowers and then I know that will work for ya.

Oh and that glass was delightful!

 

[DanielLukes]

Great great, thanks for the tip.

Does anybody have experiences with similar, subtly flavoured ingredients for giving a dark red colour and adding body? If so, how do they compare?


All you need is mead

 

[bernardsmith]

My ignorance here , but how does the addition of tea add "body" to a low alcohol mead? I am not necessarily suggesting this - and the addition of this (as does tea) technically changes the mead to a melomel (depending on whether the tea is made from fruit) or a metheglin (if the tea is made from flowers or herbs) but what if rather than tea you added bananas. I have made banana wine and the banana itself creates great mouthfeel. Equally, if you are looking for a more vivid red color what about fermenting pomegranates with the honey? Or even elderberries?

 

[DanielLukes]

You're quite right, tea adds absolutely zero body... I've done some more research now.
I believe what I like about it was the way it balanced the sweetness of the must but whether this will still be needed by the end of fermentation I don't yet know.

I really want to stay away from adding fruits and herbs if I can, but as you rightly pointed out, tea is in fact a herb! (Hence why I'm trying to get it out!)

I read somewhere that white wine makers like to age their wine on the lees. Cask ales are traditionally served out of casks which still contain lees, so perhaps this I worth a try? Or maybe using more honey, but fermented all the way to black to reduce the amount of fermentable sugars would do the trick?

Definitely going to set up two or three batches to experiment with!


All you need is mead

 

[DanielLukes]

Also, I am looking for dark ruby, not vivid red. More like a ruby ale (hobgoblin for example)


All you need is mead

 

[bernardsmith]

Ales may be aged on lees, but typically- unless you are talking about a very high gravity beer , (like barleywine) aging is in weeks not months. Aging mead for months may result in what is called autolysis of the yeast - where the yeast starts to eat yeast for nourishment and that self destruction creates off flavors. Now some yeasts break down quite rapidly (a couple of months) and others are more robust but sur lie aging (I think that is the technical term) is I think , rather more complicated than just forgetting about your mead for months...

I guess my sense is that the problem with mead is that the more flavor you want the more honey you need to use and the more honey you use the higher the alcohol content must be (unless you are looking for teeth gnashing sweetness). With other fruits and herbs and flowers the flavor does not itself come from the sugars in quite the same way - so, eg, you can increase the concentration of hibiscus or elderflowers or raspberries without significantly (or sometimes at all) increasing the sugar content. You cannot do that with mead. Although, I think , if Arpolis is correct and you burn the honey then you may be transforming some of the simple sugars in honey into more complex compounds that the yeast cannot ferment and which may not themselves be detectably sweet sugars...

 

[DanielLukes]

I think you're right there...

I will use a new recipe using only honey burnt black (wondering if this would create smokey flavours like a hint of stout?) and experiment with different honey concentrations.

When I am happy with that I will experiment with different yeasts and ageing on the lees.

Given that it is a low alcohol beverage, I imagine it will only be aged in weeks anyway (hopefully!)
The beauty of lighter meads is the fast turnaround, and I am hoping this will allow me to do lots of development quite quickly.

 

[Arpolis]

I think you're right there...

I will use a new recipe using only honey burnt black (wondering if this would create smokey flavours like a hint of stout?) and experiment with different honey concentrations.

When I am happy with that I will experiment with different yeasts and ageing on the lees.

Given that it is a low alcohol beverage, I imagine it will only be aged in weeks anyway (hopefully!)
The beauty of lighter meads is the fast turnaround, and I am hoping this will allow me to do lots of development quite quickly.

Don't count on buring honey to greatly reduce the fermentable sugars. Even a super low attensuation yeast like London ESB 1968 fermented my very burnt bochet down to 0.992-0.993 ish. That was just around 2 hours of high heat boiling and only .002ish of the gravity was un fermentable.

If you boil any more you get a lot of bitter carbon buildup and it is not a complimenting bitter flavor IMO.

My suggestion is just to follow the instructions in my light bochet but just add the Caramelized honey to an OG of 1.026. Rehydrate your yeast or better yet if you can use the lees off a wine that would be better and let her rip. That will give you an ABV of 4.25% - 5.00% depending on where the FG is. Rack off the lees once clear, stabilize with Camden and sorbate and then sweeten it with blackened honey back up to 1.010 and see where it is. It will need to sit a couple weeks for more gunk to drop out of the freshly added honey. If it is too thin then back sweeten to 1.020. That may start to get too sweet so you may need to balance that with tannin powder/liquid or adding a small amount of oak for it to sit on for a week or so.

That should have all the body you want but the color is my only concern.

 

[DanielLukes]

Rehydrate your yeast or better yet if you can use the lees off a wine that would be better and let her rip.

What do you mean by this? Forgive me for my ignorance.


From what you're saying, it seems that, even with bochet, it is not possible to produce a full bodied hydromel without it being quite sweet.

Has anybody found otherwise? I reckon I'll try it anyway, even if I may be doomed to fail, because I have quite a clear idea about how I want it to taste and it's worth a shot.

 

[Newsman]

I know you don't want to add any fruit/herbs, but have you thought about rose hips? That should add some red and some tartness to help balance out some of the sweetness.

 

[DanielLukes]

I know you don't want to add any fruit/herbs, but have you thought about rose hips? That should add some red and some tartness to help balance out some of the sweetness.

That's a good suggestion but for now I'm treating these additions rather like a last resort. I'd rather it wasn't that sweet to start with if I can avoid it.

 

[DanielLukes]

Okay, I’ve taken on board much of what you and the folks over at gotmead.com have said, but I still want to properly experiment on this myself.
Could any of you please give me some feedback on this revised recipe?

London Bochet – Mk II

• 1 pound - Wildflower Honey
• ¼ pound – Spanish Orange Blossom Honey
• 1sp - Yeast Nutrient
• Ale Yeast (tbc)
• Tap Water

1. Burn all the wildflower honey to black.
2. Slowly add two pints of boiling water and dissolve.
3. Once dissolved, remove from heat a leave to cool.
4. Once cool, pour into demijohn, with the Spanish Orange Blossom Honey and top up with tap water and the yeast nutrient.
5. Shake vigorously to aerate.
6. Pitch the yeast.
7. Once movement stops on airlock, wait for another week.
8. Bottle.

I’ve got some further questions:

- If possible, I’d like this to be lightly carbonated (this may also disguise any potential lack of body). Initially my plan was to bottle onto a tsp of honey in each bottle to avoid kicking up the lees by adding honey to the carboy. It was rightly pointed out that this is a less accurate and consistent way to do it because you can’t always be sure you are adding the same amount of honey to each bottle.

Is there a way around these problems?

- Also, I haven’t included predicted gravity readings because I don’t really have the experience to be able to predict them, can anybody help with this?
I will make 3 batches, each with different concentrations of burnt honey to see which ones turn out best.

Thank you all so much for your feedback, there is a phenomenal amount of knowledge and experience on these forums!

 

[Arpolis]

Give or take 2-4 points that amount of honey would give an ABV around 1.040 I bet. So close to a potential 6% - 7% ABV. I highly suggest upping the nutrients to about 1.5tsp and use the staggered nutrient addition method. Split the nutrients into three 1/2 tsp additions to be added at yeast pitch, the night after you notice fermentation pick up strong and again a day later. I also still highly recommend the potassium bicarbonate addition. That adds important potassium for good yeast health and keeps from PH swings going too low. Those couple things should help because compared to a normal traditional the bochet always has a longer lag time and it slightly more difficult to ferment it seems.

Earlier when I mentioned the rehydrating/ pitching lees.. I meant that if using a dry yeast like any of Lalvins or if you go for something like Nottingham it is always recommended to let the dry yeast rehydrate in a little water with a pinch of nutrient and some sugar to wake them up. Just about 10 min and then you pitch the yeast. If I can I always use the lees from a prior wine/mead to start a new batch. If I have no lees available I often make a low gravity Welche's white grape or white grape peach wine that is finished fermenting in a short time and after throwing the jug in the fridge overnight I can rack off the lees and then take the lees and package it away to be used when I want. I weigh out about 100g of the lees for a new 1 gallon batch. About double that for a bigger batch.

 

[DanielLukes]

Perfect, I think I'm all set then.
6-7% is within my range and I have nothing against your nutrient and potassium bicarbonate addition method - thanks for the tip.

I don't know whether my ale yeast counts as any of those you mentioned but I'll re hydrate anyway.
I've tried re-using lees for one of my heather hydromels. I didn't have any problems but it was a lot of agro and I didn't see any particular gain at the time. Maybe I'll have to wait for my general mead making methods to become a bit more refined before I try that again.

Can't wait to start this tomorrow - I'll keep you all posted!

 

[Arpolis]

Sounds great. I just mentioned those couple yeast but I meant to say just any dry yeast. Companies like Wyeast have liquid packs. For 1 gallon batches just make sure to follow directions on the package in regards to "smacking" them but make sure to wait a full 2-3 hours before pitching.

 

[Goofynewfie]

I did a 5g batch using wildflower honey, but I burnt 3.5lbs of honey like a bochet . the result was a sweet mead with notes of toffee and caramel. It had a great color and was drinkable after about 6- 9 months

 

[smokinghole]

Have you considered lactose sugar with the honey? Im not a mead guy so I don't know if that'd change its classification. Im just now learning what the differences are.....

 

[Arpolis]

To give you an idea of color I took a pic of my last dark bochet with 2 hours of burn time on the honey and enough to get to to around 10% ABV. So darker than what yours may be at the lower ABV levels.




I was racking off some sediment and taking gravity readings so I thought I would do a comparison shot for ya compared to my light bochet.

 

[DanielLukes]

I see... Maybe I'll have to make a compromise and make it a metheglyn...

I've actually made a start. I did two tests:


I can't help feeling that this isn't going to work without that something else. It did taste a little watery so I added tea again which solved it (no idea how at this point)

Gosnells Meadery in London DO make a delicious mead at just 6% and it uses nothing but Spanish orange blossom honey. I have no idea how they make it so low alcohol without being watery or horribly sweet.


All you need is mead

 

[NZ-beekeeper]

I have only done a couple of batches, but I have put tea (I prefer Dilmah) in all of them. My justification is that the tea contains tannins which improve the complexity of the taste. I don't have too much knowledge of wine science, but after doing a very brief read up on tannins, I think I have found out why I prefer a merlot or cabernet franc/sauvignon over pinot noir (I find New Zealand P/Ns watery and shallow. Australian reds are the best imho. They are punchy and big on alcohol and flavour, but exceptionally smooth). Now red wine is not mead, but perhaps the tannins in the tea (or something stronger like alder bark, cinnamon, coffee) can improve depth and complexity. For a beery drink, what about adding hops? Go for a fruity one (here in NZ we have one called Nelson Sauvin...apple-y and crisp)

 

[DanielLukes]

Yeah, it does seen to fill it out to some degree when you add tea, without ever imparting an actual tea flavour.
Hops has been on my list to try for a while. I might sample a hopped mead first before going ahead though because I don't have a lot of space for more fermenters!


All you need is mead

 

[DanielLukes]

Just a thought,
Had anybody tried making Hydromel but using whey instead of water?
Maybe the lactose would bulk up the body and even give it a bit of head?

Or does it just go all freaky once you try to ferment it?


All you need is mead

 

[Arpolis]

Just a thought,
Had anybody tried making Hydromel but using whey instead of water?
Maybe the lactose would bulk up the body and even give it a bit of head?

Or does it just go all freaky once you try to ferment it?


All you need is mead

My next serious experiment will be a bochet lactomel. I have wanted to do one for a while and also make a cheese from the seperated curd in the process. I think a gallon and a half of milk started on a boil with the honey and let it carmelize. I would probably add the milk in quart size additions and let it boil down, then add more. May be a 3 hour process to get the rich deep color of my normal bochets but eh, we will see. Probably bucket ferment until the curd seperates and then I can remove that and airlock the rest.

 

[DanielLukes]

Wow you've thought about this in quite some detail.
I might join you in this experiment as I've recently started making my own cheese!


All you need is mead

 

[bernardsmith]

Just a thought,
Had anybody tried making Hydromel but using whey instead of water?
Maybe the lactose would bulk up the body and even give it a bit of head?

Or does it just go all freaky once you try to ferment it?


All you need is mead

I am currently making a lactomel using lactose free milk (about 1.5 gallons) and honey (clover - about 2.5 lbs). The lactomel is very young (just started this in July) but it tastes very "fruity". Not sure if the fruitiness is coming from the yeast (Cuvee) but I have not had this kind of fruity flavor from this honey before. I have a small bottle (excess) that I had intended to use to top off the carboy but I added chocolate syrup to that bottle and now it's a milk chocolate honey drink.
Not sure that lactose will provide a head as (and my background is in the social not the physical sciences) you need protein chains to hold the CO2. Lactose is a sugar and I think would have relatively small molecular chains. Lactose might provide mouthfeel - which is to say that it may help improve the way the drink slides over your tongue rather than flows over it. You want the mead or wine to be viscous so that it coats your tongue and throat as it slides down and does not simply disappear like water. You want the flavors and textures to linger.

 

[DanielLukes]

Here's a burnt honey quick mead I started recently. I was amazed at how much the colour faded during fermentation! Why does this happen?