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eagle23

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Hey all I came across this blog post talking about makin Keptinis. I have to say the idea of baking a mash in an oven really interests me. But it really makes me think about different styles of beer that you don't hear about very often.

Does anyone have any recipes, links or stories of beer styles special to where they live or anything that you may have heard about. I'd love to hear about them.


Thanks
 
Hey all I came across this blog post talking about makin Keptinis. I have to say the idea of baking a mash in an oven really interests me. But it really makes me think about different styles of beer that you don't hear about very often.

Does anyone have any recipes, links or stories of beer styles special to where they live or anything that you may have heard about. I'd love to hear about them.


Thanks

Thanks for mentioning Keptinis!

I will totally try brewing this style in the near future :)

Just a 1 gallon batch and with an oven not as hot as in the article, but it is going to be a lot of fun!
 
Yeah Keptinis kinda peaked my interest about everything. Something I definetly want to try down the road. It just got me thinking about all the different ways one could brew.
 
Yeah Keptinis kinda peaked my interest about everything. Something I definetly want to try down the road. It just got me thinking about all the different ways one could brew.
The only other local beer styles which most people don't know about that I at least heard of, is kveik and kvaas and maybe also medieval gruit.

Kveik is fun, but you need to get hold on some of the original yeast, not the isolated commercial ones, to get the real deal.

Gruit can be also fun, we recently got a huge spike in general knowledge on the topic in the gruit beer thread due to a paper written by a member. Check the thread if you are interested.
 
So, it's like they are doing an extreme decoction of the mash. Interesting for sure.

Some of the prohibition-era recipes for homebrew beer are pretty interesting, especially given the scarcity of ingredients. We would probably shudder at the high percentages of sugar used.

You might find the blog "Shut up about Barclay Perkins" interesting. It's mostly centered on traditional English brews, but they touch on some of the unique techniques and ingredients used by the brewers, especially during the World Wars.
 
So, it's like they are doing an extreme decoction of the mash. Interesting for sure.

Some of the prohibition-era recipes for homebrew beer are pretty interesting, especially given the scarcity of ingredients. We would probably shudder at the high percentages of sugar used.

You might find the blog "Shut up about Barclay Perkins" interesting. It's mostly centered on traditional English brews, but they touch on some of the unique techniques and ingredients used by the brewers, especially during the World Wars.
Yes or even prior to that time, like the Lincoln table beer recipe using molasses as a fermentable.
 
I forgot to mention this type of finish beer in which spruce tips are utilized instead of hops....forgot the name of it....

I think you are thinking of sahti, which uses juniper boughs in the mash.

I've come up with a house recipe for Kentucky Common, which is a pretty little-known but very tasty session beer.

My next historical beer I'm going to try I think will be a piwo grodziskie, which is a type of smoked wheat polish ale.
 
I think you are thinking of sahti, which uses juniper boughs in the mash.

I've come up with a house recipe for Kentucky Common, which is a pretty little-known but very tasty session beer.

My next historical beer I'm going to try I think will be a piwo grodziskie, which is a type of smoked wheat polish ale.

Juniper, yes! I mixed it up, Sahti was what I meant.

My girlfriend's father owns a (damn good) brewerie in Poland, I will ask him about this style when I see him next time.

There is also a pretty good kentucky common recipe in the historic recipe forum, brewed it once, EVERYBODY, bmc and craft guys and gals, just loved it.
 
There are numerous gruits and traditional ales/beverages coming back into style with the world wide craft explosion, especially among expats etc wanting to find a way to reconnect with their routes.

Heather ales, junipers ales, spruce ales, kvass, palm wine, sahti, souchu, chicha, kumis etc.

Hell just look up on Wikipedia and you can find a ridiculously extensive list of traditional and folk beverages, and more will pop up when researching them.
 
There are numerous gruits and traditional ales/beverages coming back into style with the world wide craft explosion, especially among expats etc wanting to find a way to reconnect with their routes.

Heather ales, junipers ales, spruce ales, kvass, palm wine, sahti, souchu, chicha, kumis etc.

Hell just look up on Wikipedia and you can find a ridiculously extensive list of traditional and folk beverages, and more will pop up when researching them.
Indeed. But it looks like almost all of the modern gruits on the market have little to do with the original from back in the days. If you are interested in this topic, I can highly recommend the paper linked to at the most recent pages of the gruit beer thread.
 
I frequently enjoy a unique style of beer local to where I live in the west 'burbs that is loosely defined by a hazy, overly yeasty appearance and flavor, often tastes green, sometimes with a hint of band-aid; it's typically over- and/or under-hopped, depending on the week, and is sporadically over-carbed.

Super exclusive distribution, it's available only from my garage fridge.
I call it "Amateur Hour"
 
I frequently enjoy a unique style of beer local to where I live in the west 'burbs that is loosely defined by a hazy, overly yeasty appearance and flavor, often tastes green, sometimes with a hint of band-aid; it's typically over- and/or under-hopped, depending on the week, and is sporadically over-carbed.

Super exclusive distribution, it's available only from my garage fridge.
I call it "Amateur Hour"
I've usualy got at least one of them on tap...
be
but as I say in all my hobbies, if you don't f up now and again you're not trying hard enough.
at least in this hobby the results aren't as painful as my others.
 
Hey all I came across this blog post talking about makin Keptinis. I have to say the idea of baking a mash in an oven really interests me. But it really makes me think about different styles of beer that you don't hear about very often.

Does anyone have any recipes, links or stories of beer styles special to where they live or anything that you may have heard about. I'd love to hear about them.


Thanks
that's pretty cool.
I'm guessing the effect is like a more pronounced version of the beers I've made boiling down a gal of first runnings into liquid caramel and adding back to the boil. I'll have to try something like this some day.
also have to try that finnish one I suppose as I'm half Finnish. plenty juniper about here too.
haven't much to add about weird styles except a recipe I found in an old book called something like old cock ale that talked about taking ye an old cock and beating it until broken and checking it into the wort...
it all sounded somewhat traumatic as I recall.
 
I frequently enjoy a unique style of beer local to where I live in the west 'burbs that is loosely defined by a hazy, overly yeasty appearance and flavor, often tastes green, sometimes with a hint of band-aid; it's typically over- and/or under-hopped, depending on the week, and is sporadically over-carbed.

Super exclusive distribution, it's available only from my garage fridge.
I call it "Amateur Hour"

Sounds like I invented the same ?!?!

But I add usually a weird almond like flavour that sometimes appears and sometimes not, to it. It also vanishes after one or two months. Or it stays sometimes.... That one is essential for this local style.
 
Sounds like I invented the same ?!?!

But I add usually a weird almond like flavour that sometimes appears and sometimes not, to it. It also vanishes after one or two months. Or it stays sometimes.... That one is essential for this local style.
That almond flavor is gangrene, I've been trying for that but so far no joy :(
 
Sounds like I invented the same ?!?!

But I add usually a weird almond like flavour that sometimes appears and sometimes not, to it. It also vanishes after one or two months. Or it stays sometimes.... That one is essential for this local style.
strangely, I taste weird almond flavour in a lot of commercial beers, specifically Mass market lagers. never had it in my own as far as I recall though. always wondered about that
 
Never hear of Leichtbier before I read this article:

https://beerandbrewing.com/make-your-best-german-leichtbier/

So I brewed it in the spring and have it on tap now for the summer heat.
Its OK, nice for the summer but not sure if I'll brew it again.

Another unusual brew is Swankey, which some say is a historical beer from here in Pennsylvania, USA, but others say it was originally from Cornwall and then migrated to the US and Australia. There are a multitude of versions with different spices and herbs.
Haven't tried this yet, but I'd probably tweak it to suit my taste, reducing the hops ( I have old homegrown hops) subbing out honey for the sugar, using an Irish ale yeast and some yeast nutrient. Using honey should be somewhat historically accurate, the old timers used what they had.

Source:

https://www.beeradvocate.com/articl...tory-and-surprising-diaspora-of-a-lost-style/

A Swanky Homebrew
We created this recipe by comparing ingredient lists from Jan Gluyas, Roslyn Paterson and Oswald Pryor, omitting anything that did not appear in more than one list. That meant leaving out malt, wheat and salt, and using only sugar, ginger, raisins and hops. We decided on white sugar because, though brown sugar might seem more rustically authentic, refined white “loaf sugar” was actually the most commonly available variety in the 19th century. Various country beer and wine recipes in archival recipe books helped us come up with the method.

2.5 gallons (11 L) water
2 lb. (1 kg) white sugar
4 oz (100 g) ground ginger
2 oz (60 g) raisins
4 oz (100 g) old or stale hops (such as East Kent Goldings)
2 oz (60 g) fresh baker’s yeast

Boil everything together for 45 minutes. Allow it to cool completely before transferring to a fermenting vessel and adding the yeast. After about 48 hours, decant into 750 mL Champagne-style bottles, add a bruised raisin to each, and, using standard corks, seal loosely. After a few days, the corks will begin to work loose, at which point, it’s ready to drink.

This is a homebrew in the true sense of the word, so don’t get worked up about temperatures, equipment, specific ingredients or process—imagine yourself thousands of miles from home and improvise with what you have at hand. The batch we brewed on Saint Piran’s Day, the national day of Cornwall, was ready to drink less than a week later and sat somewhere between true beer and a soft drink: fizzy and refreshing, with a powerful herbal dryness from the hops which set it apart from straight-up ginger beer. It was perhaps a touch bitter. Next time we’ll use 60 grams (about 2 oz) of hops. It won’t keep long, so if you brew some, have a party. ■
 
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Indeed. But it looks like almost all of the modern gruits on the market have little to do with the original from back in the days. If you are interested in this topic, I can highly recommend the paper linked to at the most recent pages of the gruit beer thread.

True, but nearly no fermented beverage is like it was even a few centuries ago. Though that is a great link for delving into the great world of gruits
 
Following.

I recently read the same article on keptinis and was captivated. Eventually I will brew some.
I just read it too, looks like a fascinating process. I think I might try brewing a small test batch myself. The mash could be baked and then scooped into a brew bag to suit my BIAB setup, lower the bag into the kettle of pre-heated water and slowly recirculate the wort to extract all the goodness. Christ, I wouldn't even need to buy any special equipment. Maybe I missed it, but Saaz hops would be appropriate I'm guessing?
 
I just read it too, looks like a fascinating process. I think I might try brewing a small test batch myself. The mash could be baked and then scooped into a brew bag to suit my BIAB setup, lower the bag into the kettle of pre-heated water and slowly recirculate the wort to extract all the goodness. Christ, I wouldn't even need to buy any special equipment. Maybe I missed it, but Saaz hops would be appropriate I'm guessing?
Exactly what I thought, except for the recirculation. A good old stir should do the job as well.

I think the mash must be fairly thick, given the fact that he used 100c water and cooled it down to 65c only with the grain.
 
I think the mash must be fairly thick, given the fact that he used 100c water and cooled it down to 65c only with the grain.
looks like it. cant quite figure that part out tbh. when i do my excessively thick porridge mash trying to get the most out of my mash tun, it only gets maybe 85c water down to the same point, and that is super thick. gonna need a spade to stir that baby... maybe there is some process of the water on its way from boiling to the barrel, although i suppose the barrel will absorb a certain amount of heat. (funny, i originally wrote "thermal energy", amusing what putting your science hat on does to your ability to speak english). having said all that they did mention that originally they could just make bricks out of the mash with a bit of hay, so yeah, makes sense it would be suuuper dry. didn't look that dry in my recollection
 
And holy schnikes, estimating the oven temp to be 350-400 deg C? That's 660-750 deg F. I think most residential ovens top out around 500 deg F. Unless someone has a brick pizza oven or crazy grill (or a forge) I don't see how that would work...maybe longer time at lower temp would work out?
 
And holy schnikes, estimating the oven temp to be 350-400 deg C? That's 660-750 deg F. I think most residential ovens top out around 500 deg F. Unless someone has a brick pizza oven or crazy grill (or a forge) I don't see how that would work...maybe longer time at lower temp would work out?
Yes, I think them Lithuanian dudes were a bit macho on their estimations TBH. I'm sure it's hot like but maybe 50c less.. Wasn't looking too burned around the edges which I'd expect at that heat.
 
There is another blog post by the same guy with some different numbers...in that one (based on research he did vs. watching the process) he calls out a 350 deg F oven, and the grain and water volumes he mentions works out to be about 0.7 qt/lb in the mash...so yeah, super thick.
 
Thanks for mentioning Keptinis!

I will totally try brewing this style in the near future :)

Just a 1 gallon batch and with an oven not as hot as in the article, but it is going to be a lot of fun!


Brewed one today!

Only 4.5 Liters for test purposes. It is not as dark as on the pictures on larsblog, but it is nut brown. I only used MO pale and I baked the mash dough for 20 min at 250C folowed by 40 min at 180, because I was afraid that it will get burned.... maybe I should have let it ride another half an hour.

I used 0.6l boiling water on 0.9kg of grain. I hit a mash dough temperature of about 61 to 62c, I was aiming for 65+, so next time I will use more water. I wraped the pot in a sleeping bag and let it stand for 1.5 hours to mash. After that time, the heat was down to 52C, the pot simply was way too big, big surface, big heat loss.

Anyway, will throw in MJ california Lager in a few minutes, as I have an open pack flying around. Initially I wanted to use Notty, but as my notty is still nicely sealed....

I used Magnum for bittering and couldn't resist to give it about 1.2g/l Saaz at 5 minutes left.
OG is about 1.047, although I actually targeted 1.55..... Ok, bit weaker than expected but still within a range that will yield an exceptable beer.

Rarely I have been looking forward to try a batch as much as I am doing for this one!
 
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0.7 qt/lb to mash, how much to sparge with? Where is the other article?
 
The US used to have a lot of regional beer styles that disappeared over time. Kentucky common was mentioned above but there were others like Pennsylvania swankey and others which were modeled on British beers but used available fermentables. Pre-prohibition there were a lot of German beer styles translated to the US which used a lot of corn. The use of corn began as a method to thin out the more commonly grown six row barley but eventually became part of the desired flavor of American beer (along with rice). Only a handful of these beers remain in production like Shiner Bock.

Today there are fewer regional styles in American craft beer and whenever a regional style emerges it tends to gain adoption around the country (and beyond) fairly quickly. NE IPA certainly is no longer only brewed in the northeast. Cascadian dark ales/black IPA was once a regional style that spread. California common/steam beer is one that never really spread but that might be because it was too close to the amber ales and lagers that appeared in the craft beer market around the same time.
 
So, Miraculix ... give us some idea how your version of thick mash "beer bread" ale or keptinis finished up!

Well, it was actually a quite enjoyable beer. I brewed it as a lager, so there wasn't much from the yeast. The beer itself was a bit caramelly but also a bit fruity in a very strange way, must have come from the caramelised sugars, just a bit like candy sirup can also be fruity. It was also a bit nutty. Really delicious.

Do not overpower it with hops! No late additions! Only bittering hops!

For the next trial, I would use more water per weight of grain (aproximately 0.7l per kg of grain) and I would use higher temperature and maybe even longer time in the oven.

Overall, totally recommended!
 
Well, from that description this is something that might be an experiment for Chimay yeast. I expected the flavors you described and think 20-25 IBU of noble hops would be interesting to do, and it might end up sort of like a weaker dubbel or holiday ale as such.
Thanks!
 
Well, from that description this is something that might be an experiment for Chimay yeast. I expected the flavors you described and think 20-25 IBU of noble hops would be interesting to do, and it might end up sort of like a weaker dubbel or holiday ale as such.
Thanks!
Yes, I would say 25 to 30 ibus would be the sweet spot, as it finishes a bit sweeter than your would expect from the yeast, so better choose one of the higher attenuating lager yeasts. The one i used would be the easiest one, as it really does well at room temp.

Taste wise it was really unique but delicious. Don't even think about speciality malts, go all pale!

Use a clean yeast first, no crazy Belgian or something like that. At least for the first run. I cannot imagine this taste being improved by strong yeast impact.
 
I don't see why you couldn't brew a keptinis-influenced beer with a more expressive yeast but I agree you do not need to. It is a flavorful and complex beer without help. I brewed a keptinis-inspired beer myself and used London Ale III to ferment (because it was the most appropriate yeast I had on hand) and it turned out really nice. Definitely a messy process though.
 
I don't see why you couldn't brew a keptinis-influenced beer with a more expressive yeast but I agree you do not need to. It is a flavorful and complex beer without help. I brewed a keptinis-inspired beer myself and used London Ale III to ferment (because it was the most appropriate yeast I had on hand) and it turned out really nice. Definitely a messy process though.
Of course you can, but as you have not a single idea about how this process affects the taste, you would fly blindly.

Brew a batch as a (California) lager then decide for yourself.

I tried it and for my palate, the taste of it wouldn't be improved by a yeast with a lot of flavour on its own.

It is a very expressive and distinctive taste which I haven't had on any other beer before, so I would strongly suggest getting it to know for yourself before experimenting.
 
I think the idea of using a nicely flocculating, attenuative ale or lager yeast with few esters or phenolics is a good suggestion. That style of brewing may allow a better appreciation of the flavors before possibly muddling things up with other impressions.
Either way, I still like the idea of a caramelized, baked mash that would throw a spin on a brown ale or porter styled beer that has a very simple grain bill.

Love the viewpoints and opinions, thanks!
 
I think the idea of using a nicely flocculating, attenuative ale or lager yeast with few esters or phenolics is a good suggestion. That style of brewing may allow a better appreciation of the flavors before possibly muddling things up with other impressions.
Either way, I still like the idea of a caramelized, baked mash that would throw a spin on a brown ale or porter styled beer that has a very simple grain bill.

Love the viewpoints and opinions, thanks!
I can really see this one as a nutbrown winning competitions. But you have to figure out when the darkness from the baking is correct to get into nutbrown terrain.
 
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