Liquid Yeast Sux

[brewbama]

*rant* I am about done with "liquid" yeast. With all the quality dry yeast choices out there now, I think I've bought about my last dead yeast. I have bought "liquid" yeast from the LHBS and online, with ice packs and from the fridge, in the vial and in a smack pack. It's hit and miss whether it's alive or not. I have never had a package of dry yeast not take off like a mad man whether hydrated or simply sprinkled on top. bottom line: I am about done with "liquid" yeast. *rant over*

 

[Big Monk]

That's what starters are for.

I use only a handful of liquid strains for Trappist beers. Other than that it's dry yeast.

Just out of curiosity, why the quotations around liquid?

 

[slym2none]

If the yeast are dead to start with, as the OP suggests, a starter won't magically bring them back to life.

 

[Big Monk]

The likelihood of a completely dead yeast is very low.

 

[chudsonvt]

Sorry to hear! I've never had trouble and I use Wyeast Labs liquid yeast smack packs. Not sure if it is a handling thing or an age thing, but mine have all been used within 2 months of the packaged date, usually less than a month.

My complain? They are too expensive. Yesterday, I pitch my first batch I have ever used harvested yeast with. Already off to a good start.

 

[slym2none]

The likelihood of a completely dead yeast is very low.

I am just going by what the OP says.

*shrug*

 

[drainbamage]

Early in my brewing, I used to blame liquid yeast for bad batches. I almost quit brewing after several brews using liquid yeast strains failed for different reasons. Not saying you're a bad brewer, just saying...I've been there.

The main thing to keep in mind is that liquid yeast is more finicky than dry. Pitching rates, temperature control, and starters are much more important. You also need to make sure that the yeast is not expired when you buy it (at least from the LHBS, online you can't help much).

 

[MaddBaggins]

Are you getting old vials from your LHBS? That issue is on them, but even old vials can be brought back with starters. I've had bad results everytime I've ordered liquid yeast. Even paying for extra ice packs and not ordering during summer, I get warm or even hot yeast by the time it gets to me. Each time, I tried to use them after assurances from the vendor. The beers were horrible. I will no longer order liquid yeast.
I use probably 60/40 liquid/dry. I get great results from either. I always do starters with liquid and I always rehydrate dry ones.

 

[tagz]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1452468301.389992.jpg

 

[-CHRIS-]

Have you tried making a starter? I have had my most active fermentations using liquid yeast and a starter. Beersmith, yeastcalc.com or mrmalty.com will tell you how to make the starter.

Personally I use a stir plate, but that is not necessary.

Chris

 

[LostBoyScout]

I've done about 20 batches now with liquid yeast and never had an issue, it's never taken more than 12 hours for substantial activity to start - guess I have some good LHBS's! Zero of those have used a starter too (though usually 3 gallon batches)

 

[brewbama]

I use a starter. For years. That's how I know i've had dead yeast.

I just looked at my brew log. Over the past 50 or so all grain batches i've had dead liquid yeast four times.

I keep dry yeast as an emergency backup for liquid yeast. I've NEVER had dead dry yeast.

I've NEVER kept liquid yeast as an emergency backup for dry yeast.

So... At a minimum it's a crap shoot. My conclusion: liquid yeast sux.

 

[drainbamage]

When you buy liquid yeast, is it before the expiration date? A little past the expiration date? Way past the expiration date?

 

[ericbw]

I use a starter. For years. That's how I know i've had dead yeast.

I just looked at my brew log. Over the past 50 or so all grain batches i've had dead liquid yeast four times.

I keep dry yeast as an emergency backup for liquid yeast. I've NEVER had dead dry yeast.

I've NEVER kept liquid yeast as an emergency backup for dry yeast.

So... At a minimum it's a crap shoot. My conclusion: liquid yeast sux.

Dude, you said it's hit or miss like it happens all the time. Only 4 times?

Are you sure you're not killing it by adding it to hot wort?

 

[Big Monk]

92% success rate is pretty good.

 

[schematix]

I've brewed 59 batches in ~4.5 years. Used dry yeast 3 times... liquid 56 times. 0 failures.

Probably operator error here. How about rather than swearing off probably the best form of yeast, you tell us what you're doing and try to help you fix your problem?

 

[govner1]

*rant* I am about done with "liquid" yeast. With all the quality dry yeast choices out there now, I think I've bought about my last dead yeast. I have bought "liquid" yeast from the LHBS and online, with ice packs and from the fridge, in the vial and in a smack pack. It's hit and miss whether it's alive or not. I have never had a package of dry yeast not take off like a mad man whether hydrated or simply sprinkled on top. bottom line: I am about done with "liquid" yeast. *rant over*

"With all the quality dry yeast choices"!!?? Without a doubt there are some very good dry yeasts a available & I've used them on many occasions but I doubt you can compare the choices to those available in liquid yeasts.
My LHBS stocks both and I've NEVER had a failure w/ either when I followed either the rehydration instructions or "smack pack"instructions.
It's hard to tell from your rant if you have any sort of ferm temp control or at what temp you pitch.
Both can significantly impact your yeast.

 

[Ungoliant]

I've swapped to dry yeast simply to save money. I don't need a super specialized yeast to brew my beers, but liquid yeast most definitely offers a much wider selection. Good luck finding a sour mix in dried form.

That being said, the main reason why I swapped is because my LHBS typically has older yeast in stock (30-180 days old). I'll only use liquid if it's within a month of manufacture date.

Another reason why I swapped is, with the beers I make I need big 4L starters, and I only have a 2L flask. I hate doing step ups, doing extra work, etc.

That being said, I don't think liquid yeast sucks because you sacrifice consistency for variety, and if you're doing something really special you want the "right" yeast.

 

[ThomasPaine]

White labs doesn't use vials anymore. They have new packs that they propagate the yeast in. I have had great success with them with no starters.

 

[arnobg]

If the yeast are dead to start with, as the OP suggests, a starter won't magically bring them back to life.

No, but at least you can confirm the yeast you were going to pitch was in fact dead before doing so. A starter is a great way to ensure yeast vitality.

 

[alhounos]

Liquid yeast does require a bit of extra knowledge and preparation. If it's too much, the OP should stick with dry yeast. Now what was the point of this thread?

 

[-CHRIS-]

Now what was the point of this thread?

Well I thought the OP wanted to figure out what he was doing wrong, but apparently he just wants to vent, which is perfectly fine too.

Chris

 

[BBL_Brewer]

Liquid yeast most certainly does not suck. Check the dates on the packs and get fresh ones. If they don't have any, come back later. If you buy online, call the vendor and ask about the dates. I do that when I order yeast.

 

[wallybangbang]

If you have had that many failures with liquid yeast something is going on- the temp you store it at, the temp the people you buy it from are storing it at, some kind of issue with your starters etc..... I've used liquid for 4+ years and never had a dead vial. Thought i might have recently but it was something I did.

 

[Sailingeric]

Yep it sucks, as you can see below! Just kidding. I have had no issues with White Labs but I get it from my LHBS that has good volume so getting old yeast is not to much of an issue.

 

[dobes]

Use liquid yeast most of the time. 100% good experience.

My LHBS sells out dated ones at 1/2 the cost and I buy them if they have what I'm looking for. Make a starter good to go. Never had any issues with them either.

 

[philipCT]

Wyeast apostle here. In 40 brews I've had 1 bad smack-pak that I detected because the starter was DOA. No problem - made up another starter from a fresh pak and fermented a great beer. I do get all my yeast from my LHBS and they keep a fresh stock really well in a good fridge.

I've had 2 not-great experiences with dry yeast but I suspect that's just cause I was new to them.

I think my take-away from that was not "dry yeast suks", but more like "stick to what you know", or at probably, "when brewing with new ingredients, don't expect to nail it first time" out.

I'll add that I bought a smak-pak that was 12 months old once just because I wanted to use that strain and that was the only pak they had. Stepped it up a few times and it made a lovely starter that I brewed several beers with after harvesting the first go around.

 

[-CHRIS-]

Here is White Labs Kolsch yeast 18 hours into fermentation of 10 gallons of wort. I made a 2 liter starter on a stir plate and allowed the yeast to grow for 36 hours before cold crashing, decanting and pitching.

 

[beskone]

Yup I've used liquid yeast in all of my batches so far. Every one has done just fine.

I recently began making starters instead of pitching multiple vials and am amazed how much faster the fermentation takes off.

My last batch with wlp090 was so explosive it wedged cork of trub in the neck of my carboy 3" thick.

 

[Brew_G]

I just revived a Wyeast 1010 pack with a manufacture date of 22 July 2014. It's been stored in the fridge since the day I got it (sometime in October 2014) and while it took a little while to get it going, I've got a nice little yeast cake to use in a starter for an American Wheat I'll be making in a few months.

So I guess that didn't suck.

 

[Firewalker11]

I agree with the original poster, liquid yeast sucks! Under yielding cell counts, extremely prissy temperature tolerances, mandatory starters and expensive! Have at it fanboys but I am done with them, plenty of good dry yeasts out there!

 

[bkboiler]

liquid yeast is more work, but for beers where I am really swinging for the fences, it's worth it.
I guess living in SD, the white labs yeast has pretty high viability, but the pure-pitch should help out a lot for those that must mail-order.
don't give up!!

 

[drainbamage]

When you guys mention quality dry yeasts, where (and what) are you finding?

My LHBSs carry mostly the standards...US-05, S-04, Nottingham, Saflager W-34/70, occasionally Belle Saison. While those are all solid choices, if I want something more specialized (I like to brew Belgian styles a lot), I don't have any good options in dry yeast.

 

[MarshmallowBlue]

I hope Mangrove Jack's dry yeast becomes more readily available, it's one of my favorite dry yeasts if I can get my hands on it. Liquid is good for belgian styles that need really specific yeast qualities only (and sours).

 

[m00ps]

I switched to exclusively liquid about a year ago, halfway through my brewing history. My beers have definitely improved. But that is also due to more experience. I brew a lot of Belgians (NEED liquid IMO) and IPAs. For the IPAs, I like to use something a littel more interesting than US-05. Conan and WY1318 I like. Until there is a comparable variety of dry yeast, Im not going back.

Plus, I havent had to buy a new yeast strain in a year. Harvesting from starters is amazing

 

[slym2none]

When you guys mention quality dry yeasts, where (and what) are you finding?

This is the dry yeast selection for beer at my LHBS, Bull City Brewing:

Danstar Belle Saison Yeast
Danstar BRY-97 American West Coast Yeast
Danstar CBC-1 Cask and Bottle Conditioned Beer Yeast
Danstar Munich Wheat Beer Yeast
Danstar Nottingham Yeast
Danstar Windsor Ale Yeast
Muntons Standard Dry Yeast
Safale American Ale US-05
SafAle English Ale S-04
Safbrew Abbaye Dry Brewing Yeast
SafBrew S-33
SafBrew T-58
SafBrew WB-06
SafLager S-23
Saflager W-34/70

 

[Ungoliant]

When you guys mention quality dry yeasts, where (and what) are you finding?

My LHBSs carry mostly the standards...US-05, S-04, Nottingham, Saflager W-34/70, occasionally Belle Saison. While those are all solid choices, if I want something more specialized (I like to brew Belgian styles a lot), I don't have any good options in dry yeast.

My LHBS carries the full range of Danstar, Mangrove Jack, and Fermentis dry yeasts. I'm not really left wanting for variety considering they've got 2 double-door commercial fridges full of liquid yeast and another 3 full of hops.

I use Altantic Brew Supply in Raleigh, NC

 

[xandersaml]

I've not had a problem with either liquid or dry yeast. Admittedly, I generally overpitch. I have used both beyond their expired date and still got good fermentation. I use starters and/or just pitch from packages on both. Could be just dumb luck... because, dumb I can do

 

[drainbamage]

This is the dry yeast selection for beer at my LHBS, Bull City Brewing:

My LHBS carries the full range of Danstar, Mangrove Jack, and Fermentis dry yeasts. I'm not really left wanting for variety considering they've got 2 double-door commercial fridges full of liquid yeast and another 3 full of hops.

I use Altantic Brew Supply in Raleigh, NC

Aside from Mangrove Jack and a couple others here and there, those look pretty much like the options I have.

These days, I'm probably at a 50/50 split between dry (usually S-05, occasionally Notty) and liquid (Belgian strains, or hybrids like Kolsch or Cali Common). Dry is more resilient for sure, but I can't really pick up on any difference in quality otherwise.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

I'm done with "liquid" and "dry" yeasts! they suck! from now on I'm only using fire yeast!