Learning/building ebiab setup

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mwm5461

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Hello all,

So I did my first BIAB brew yesterday and I love the method. I moved into an apartment and found this method to be much more enjoyable. There was only one problem. After quite some time trying to boil 5 gallons of wort for a small batch brew I realized one burner on my stove top wasn't enough! I had to move the kettle to two burners and still experienced some lag time to get a good boil.

This combined with the information I've read regarding ebiab set-ups has motivated me to pursue electric brewing. I understand that there is a lot of information out there regarding ebiab but I would greatly appreciate any information tailored to my own equipment and specifications.

Ideally, I am thinking of something similar to this set-up: http://www.highgravitybrew.com/store/pc/BIAB-Electric-Brewing-System-240V-p3987.htm

I currently would like to convert my 8 gallon 1.2 MegaPot Brew Kettle to an electric kettle. I would like to brew small batches (2-3 gallons). I assume I don't need 4500W heating element like the one in the high gravity link I provided. I would like the temperature mash control that the PID controller featured in the link I sent has. I see myself spending around $200-300 to convert my kettle. Is this realistic? Could I spend less? I have really no experience with electronics so I imagine I will need to buy the controller and most other supplies. I appreciate any information anyone can provide that will help me to build my desired ebiab setup.

Thanks all!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
E BIAB with temp control is a great thing, but with that comes some complexity.

I would try a 3 gallon batch stovetop, and try putting your kettle in a warm oven to keep mash temps stable.

With a little practice this method will work very well.
 
RM-MN thank you for your feedback. I think that I would prefer a standalone ebiab set up though rather than something to use in conjunction with my stove top.

I definitely would like to save some money but am willing to spend some more for a full ebiab set up.
 
Thanks for the advice wilserbrewer. My last brew I did get a pretty stable mash temperature. I guess my main reason for wanting ebiab is the time savings since my stove top takes so long to boil and reach strike temperature. This along with the added factor of temp control is what interests me in pursuing Ebiab set ups.
 
Ok cool, if time savings and precise temp control are what your after, it sounds like you need high wattage, pid control with recirculating pump.
 
mwm5461 said:
Hello all,

So I did my first BIAB brew yesterday and I love the method. I moved into an apartment and found this method to be much more enjoyable. There was only one problem. After quite some time trying to boil 5 gallons of wort for a small batch brew I realized one burner on my stove top wasn't enough! I had to move the kettle to two burners and still experienced some lag time to get a good boil.

This combined with the information I've read regarding ebiab set-ups has motivated me to pursue electric brewing. I understand that there is a lot of information out there regarding ebiab but I would greatly appreciate any information tailored to my own equipment and specifications.

Ideally, I am thinking of something similar to this set-up: http://www.highgravitybrew.com/store/pc/BIAB-Electric-Brewing-System-240V-p3987.htm

I currently would like to convert my 8 gallon 1.2 MegaPot Brew Kettle to an electric kettle. I would like to brew small batches (2-3 gallons). I assume I don't need 4500W heating element like the one in the high gravity link I provided. I would like the temperature mash control that the PID controller featured in the link I sent has. I see myself spending around $200-300 to convert my kettle. Is this realistic? Could I spend less? I have really no experience with electronics so I imagine I will need to buy the controller and most other supplies. I appreciate any information anyone can provide that will help me to build my desired ebiab setup.

Thanks all!
Click to expand...

Here's my advice if you want to go with eBIAB with some controls involved. With 2-3 gallon batches you'll only need a 1500 watt element. With that wattage, all you need to control your element is a simple analog controller like this Ranco.

https://www.morebeer.com/products/ranco-digital-temperature-controller-wired.html?site_id=5

Buy a Hot Pod and 1500 watt stainless element from Bobby at Brewhardware.com. Get a plug a some wire there while you're at it. Easy peasy to install.

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/hotpod-ewl3.htm

Find a cheap 24v pump on eBay or buy one for $50 that's already got the power supply with it from BrauSupply.com

You'll also need some kind of false bottom or steamer basket so you don't scorch the bag during the mash.

If you don't already have a valve on that kettle you'll have to install one, and you're gonna want another one on the discharge of the pump. Add some silicon hose and you might be all in for a touch over $300.

This is about the cheapest route you can go to get a little bit of control with eBIAB.
 
TexasWine said:
Here's my advice if you want to go with eBIAB with some controls involved. With 2-3 gallon batches you'll only need a 1500 watt element. With that wattage, all you need to control your element is a simple analog controller like this Ranco.

https://www.morebeer.com/products/ranco-digital-temperature-controller-wired.html?site_id=5

Buy a Hot Pod and 1500 watt stainless element from Bobby at Brewhardware.com. Get a plug a some wire there while you're at it. Easy peasy to install.

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/hotpod-ewl3.htm

Find a cheap 24v pump on eBay or buy one for $50 that's already got the power supply with it from BrauSupply.com

You'll also need some kind of false bottom or steamer basket so you don't scorch the bag during the mash.

If you don't already have a valve on that kettle you'll have to install one, and you're gonna want another one on the discharge of the pump. Add some silicon hose and you might be all in for a touch over $300.

This is about the cheapest route you can go to get a little bit of control with eBIAB.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for the extremely helpful information. I just want to confirm that I will have everything for my set-up and ask a couple questions about what you said TexasWine.

Also, I have an 8 gallon 1.2 MegaPot with a ball valve and thermometer. This is a link to my kettle for reference: http://www.northernbrewer.com/8-gal-megapot

What I plan to get based on your advice:

1) Ranco Controller https://www.morebeer.com/products/ranco-digital-temperature-controller-wired.html?site_id=5

2) Hot Pod https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/hotpod-ewl3.htm

3) Brewhardware.com has a short and long 1500 W stainless steel heating element. The short is 9 inches and the long is 12 inches. The diameter of my kettle is 12.6 inches. I assume I want the short one? Here are the links to both: https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/element1500_short.htm
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/element1500_long.htm

4) Brausupply 24v pump with power supply: http://brausupply.com/products/brew-pump-24v

5) You mentioned a plug and wire from brewhardware as well. Are these good for my set-up?
This plug https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/plug15gfci.htm
or
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/plug15.htm
and this wire https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/cable12.htm

6) Silicone hose

7) Should I just get any ball valve at a home depot or lowe's? Is there something you recommend for the pump discharge as you noted.

8) Are there any BIAB false bottoms you recommend for my kettle? I was following the BIAB false bottom thread on the forums but when I went to the site they only had a 14.75" diameter false bottom that is sold out :(

I believe that should cover it all? I appreciate any remaining recommendations you have. Thank again!
 
Is 1500w enough? I thought the OP was looking for fast heat time?

Any time I've tried with that low wattage it was like watching grass grow?

Sorry don't want to be a Debbie Downer, so my apologies if this isn't a concern.
 
You are correct wilserbrewer. I am looking for fast heat time. I don't need anything too crazy fast though. I am not aware of how much wattage I need but maybe TexasWine recommended that because I'm only planning on doing 2-3 gallons batches?
 
Okay, some peanut gallery comments. I've done stove top two burner boils @ 5 gallons and I've done 3 gallon BIAB in a pot, 5+ gallons in a voile curtain lined 48 qt cooler, and I've built a 5+ gallon (likely I could do 10 or more if I go back to using my cooler) recirculating eBIAB system with a spa panel, keggle, 4500W element. The last is the best by far. I love being inside. Especially in January...

If you will be happy with putting a hole in that 8 gallon Megapot and live with 2-3 gallon batches, then a 1500W (15A) 120V element and a "router speed controller" $19 on sale now (+20% off, find a coupon) from Harbor Freight is rated for and will work if you don't mind manually monitoring the temperature during mash. Make sure you plug this concoction into a 15 or 20A GFCI and you'd be there for a 2-3 gallon batch... maybe as much as 4 if you push it.

Your 8 gallon pot is too small to mash 5 gallons in, but a $20 48qt rectangular cooler and a bag or curtain panel could fix that... so if you really wanted to do five gallons, if you mash in the cooler, you could easily get there.

How? Well assuming you live in a semi-modern apartment, you should have a 15A or 20A GFCI near the stove. You can put the pot of the stove and get another 2000W+ of energy into the pot. The control on the stove plus the controller should give you more than enough boil control.

So what you ask is very doable. If you want to PID the system, you have basically the same circuit as you would with 240V... RTD sensor in the pot or recirculation stream if you choose to do that, and then a SSR switching the 120V hot, and the PID controlling the SSR.. but that will run you another $50-100 depending on if you don't mind using the MyPin TD's versus Auber stuff and Chinese SSR's versus Auber ones...

If you start off with the Router Controller, then you can still use that when you PID-- in series (my 240V system works that way with a SSVR and I like the fact I can tweak the PID a little when mashing)--- and then use any PID you can find which will cost about the same.

But yeah, if I ever had to live in a apartment I was considering doing exactly that to my 8 gallon cheapy pot to get me through it until I had a 240V source again.

You can be very fancy in mounting the element or cheap. I used a 1" nut and washer sourced from eBay and an electrical box I punched a hole in for the other side of it. On a MegaPot, that likely could be too ghetto.

One other alternative would be to get a "heat stick" and use that at boil with your stove.

So yes, it depends what you are after. But there are a lot of options.
 
Again I apologize for being the naysayer, but at the 2-3 gallon batch size I really feel the stovetop is the easiest most efficient method, unless of course you enjoy a more complex brew session.

I can't imagine I would find it enjoyable brewing w 1500w hooking up an element, pump and pid and hoses and recirculating. I think this would be at least as long or longer a session, not to mention additional cleaning, and much more labor intensive.

I apologize, I know some love this level of detail and enjoy the extra steps involved, as well as the additional complications that may arise, just trying to be objective...just my opinion.

I guess I just fail to see how this would "speed" up the brew session, IMO it complicates the hell out of it and will likely add time and labor...sorry again, jmo
 
wilserbrewer said:
Again I apologize for being the naysayer, but at the 2-3 gallon batch size I really feel the stovetop is the easiest most efficient method, unless of course you enjoy a more complex brew session.

I can't imagine I would find it enjoyable brewing w 1500w hooking up an element, pump and pid and hoses and recirculating. I think this would be at least as long or longer a session, not to mention additional cleaning, and much more labor intensive.

I apologize, I know some love this level of detail and enjoy the extra steps involved, as well as the additional complications that may arise, just trying to be objective...just my opinion.

I guess I just fail to see how this would "speed" up the brew session, IMO it complicates the hell out of it and will likely add time and labor...sorry again, jmo
Click to expand...

I agree with @wilserbrewer here. Unless you're really hankering to get some minor level of controls, 2-3 gallon batches can't be beat on the stove top and oven.

Not contradicting my earlier post. Just wanted to propose an option should you want to go that route.
 
I didn't understand it would be more complex with an ebiab system. I understand that the set-up may be more complex but for brew day wouldn't I just be setting the temperature and monitoring mash temps, as opposed to constantly messing with the stove top and dealing with one vs. two burners for temp control? Maybe that just speaks to my lack of knowledge of electric set-ups. I like the idea of having full temperature control. I don't really see myself going back to 5 gallon batches so I viewed the ebiab set-up as a stable system that I could really experiment with, without having to always adjust my system (I'm early in my career and could be moving frequently).

I like the idea of an ebiab system but if you all strongly feel that stove tops are the way to go for 2-3 gallons batches I'll consider staying with what I have.
 
mwm5461 said:
Thanks for the advice wilserbrewer. My last brew I did get a pretty stable mash temperature. I guess my main reason for wanting ebiab is the time savings since my stove top takes so long to boil and reach strike temperature. This along with the added factor of temp control is what interests me in pursuing Ebiab set ups.
Click to expand...




mwm5461 said:
I didn't understand it would be more complex with an ebiab system. I understand that the set-up may be more complex but for brew day wouldn't I just be setting the temperature and monitoring mash temps, as opposed to constantly messing with the stove top and dealing with one vs. two burners for temp control? Maybe that just speaks to my lack of knowledge of electric set-ups. I like the idea of having full temperature control. I don't really see myself going back to 5 gallon batches so I viewed the ebiab set-up as a stable system that I could really experiment with, without having to always adjust my system (I'm early in my career and could be moving frequently).

I like the idea of an ebiab system but if you all strongly feel that stove tops are the way to go for 2-3 gallons batches I'll consider staying with what I have.
Click to expand...

Sounds like time savings and stable temps are two primary drivers for you.

By your own admission you already have stable temp control, so I don't imagine you do much fiddling around with the temp during the mash. With that, let's strike stable mash temps from consideration because you've achieved that.

Speed is the other. Your brew day will most likely be longer with a controlled eBIAB system and all its accessories. But, keep reading....

I've gone through several permutations of single vessel BIAB brewing; stove top with insulation for mashing, stove top and the oven, eBIAB with no controls, eBIAB with a PID and pump, sparging and no sparge, no chill and chilling. I finally went with a PID controlled eBIAB system not because I wanted to shorten my brew day. Actually adding a pump and control lengthened my brew day quite substantially. More things to clean, more to set up. Also it gave me the ability to do step mashes, which I find myself doing quite often lately, and that adds a whole lot of time to the day as well.

However, let's consider that with my set up I can step away to do other things while it's chugging away. For instance, I can pre heat my water and know it will be exactly at the right temp when I get back to it. When ramping to boil I can set the temp to 200F or so and have it alarm me when it gets there so I will be present to guard against boil overs. The mash can last as long as I need it to and I can bake a cake without concerning myself about dropping mash temp. These are just a few examples.

I love my eBIAB set up. Wouldn't go back at this point. I understand the draw you feel. Just know it will add some complexity to your day, especially initially because you'll be trying to learn the system.

Ultimately the decision depends on your goals. When you have everything dialed in, you should be able to knock out a standard BIAB batch in three hours or less, assuming you have sufficient heat input. If that suits your need for speed, stick with fine tuning your current system.
 
Step mashes rock, especially when doing lagers. I like the PID and pump. The pump is nice on a setup because it helps keep the entire mash at a single temperature. Otherwise you will get stratifications in the temperature in a heated mash. As far as adding energy to the mash as opposed to insulation? Much better control and easier. I suspect cleaning the pump isn't harder than a mash tun, so even that is easier. I am slightly quicker with my recirculating eBiab system than I was batch sparging, but the extra level of temperature control (yes on the hot side, and especially with step mashes) is one of the better improvements to the system I have ever done. It's nice when I dial in +/- 2F and just be done with it.
 
mwm5461 said:
Thank you so much for the extremely helpful information. I just want to confirm that I will have everything for my set-up and ask a couple questions about what you said TexasWine.

Also, I have an 8 gallon 1.2 MegaPot with a ball valve and thermometer. This is a link to my kettle for reference: http://www.northernbrewer.com/8-gal-megapot

What I plan to get based on your advice:

1) Ranco Controller https://www.morebeer.com/products/ranco-digital-temperature-controller-wired.html?site_id=5

2) Hot Pod https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/hotpod-ewl3.htm

3) Brewhardware.com has a short and long 1500 W stainless steel heating element. The short is 9 inches and the long is 12 inches. The diameter of my kettle is 12.6 inches. I assume I want the short one? Here are the links to both: https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/element1500_short.htm
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/element1500_long.htm

4) Brausupply 24v pump with power supply: http://brausupply.com/products/brew-pump-24v

5) You mentioned a plug and wire from brewhardware as well. Are these good for my set-up?
This plug https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/plug15gfci.htm
or
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/plug15.htm
and this wire https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/cable12.htm

6) Silicone hose

7) Should I just get any ball valve at a home depot or lowe's? Is there something you recommend for the pump discharge as you noted.

8) Are there any BIAB false bottoms you recommend for my kettle? I was following the BIAB false bottom thread on the forums but when I went to the site they only had a 14.75" diameter false bottom that is sold out :(

I believe that should cover it all? I appreciate any remaining recommendations you have. Thank again!
Click to expand...

Based on the information and advice provided I would like to pursue an ebiab set up. So, to follow up on my previous post quoted above I would appreciate any additional information to help me complete a full set up using my 8 gallon MegaPot kettle to brew 2-3 gallon batches. Thanks all!

I also understand that pre made ebiab systems would be more expensive but I also wouldn't mind any recommendation for those as well.
 
I would just go with a 2000w element like this one:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006JLVBW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Don't use the ranco controller though, its not rated for more than 6 amps. That's even if you use the 1500w element. You could add another relay that could handle the load but you need to be comfortable working with electricity if you want to start modifying.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
ccbadd said:
Don't use the ranco controller though, its not rated for more than 6 amps.
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure about that. This is the same controller Brau Supply provides as an option with their 120 volt systems. Looks like the normally open contact is rated for 16 amps.

Of course I could be overlooking something.
 
TexasWine said:
I'm not so sure about that. This is the same controller Brau Supply provides as an option with their 120 volt systems. Looks like the normally open contact is rated for 16 amps.

Of course I could be overlooking something.
Click to expand...

Your right, I was looking at the NC contact rating. The difference is quite surprising though as most form c relays have the same rating on both sides of the contact. Maybe they use two separate form a relays that are different.
 
ccbadd said:
I would just go with a 2000w element like this one:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006JLVBW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Don't use the ranco controller though, its not rated for more than 6 amps. That's even if you use the 1500w element. You could add another relay that could handle the load but you need to be comfortable working with electricity if you want to start modifying.
Click to expand...

ccbadd said:
Your right, I was looking at the NC contact rating. The difference is quite surprising though as most form c relays have the same rating on both sides of the contact. Maybe they use two separate form a relays that are different.
Click to expand...

So then the Ranco Controller would be fine with the 2000W element linked in the quote above?

I appreciate any helpful advice or details you can provide for my previous post on numbers: 5, 7, and 8. Is that everything I will need?

Also, would appreciate any pre made ebiab system recommendations.

Thanks!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
mwm5461 said:
So then the Ranco Controller would be fine with the 2000W element linked in the quote above?

I appreciate any helpful advice or details you can provide for my previous post on numbers: 5, 7, and 8. Is that everything I will need?

Also, would appreciate any pre made ebiab system recommendations.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Looks like the ranco is fine. Here is the pre-built system that I would buy if I hadn't already built my own.
http://www.cobrewingsystems.com/collections/frontpage/products/nano-brewer-home-electric-brew-system
 
ccbadd said:
Looks like the ranco is fine. Here is the pre-built system that I would buy if I hadn't already built my own.

http://www.cobrewingsystems.com/collections/frontpage/products/nano-brewer-home-electric-brew-system
Click to expand...


Yea that shows it is used with 1500w element which is less than 15 A.

The OP was specifically asking about 2000w and using a raanco.

The manufactures lists 15A max, who knows, maybe it will wrk fine at around 18 idk.

It's only a $50 unit unwired if you smoke it...aka proceed at your own risk.
 
I personally would not use the ranco controller. Even at 1500w you are too close to the limits of the contacts but that's just me. I would go the route of getting the Auber boil controller and an ssr. I'm ordering one right now to try out as I think it is very well customized to what we need it for. Here is the link. They have a good video to demonstrate it's use.
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=560
It will cost a little more and you have to assemble it yourself but it is worth it in my opinion.
 
ccbadd said:
I personally would not use the ranco controller. Even at 1500w you are too close to the limits of the contacts but that's just me. I would go the route of getting the Auber boil controller and an ssr. I'm ordering one right now to try out as I think it is very well customized to what we need it for. Here is the link. They have a good video to demonstrate it's use.
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=560
It will cost a little more and you have to assemble it yourself but it is worth it in my opinion.
Click to expand...

In an effort to learn about controller options and your opinion is there a reason why this brau supply build uses a Ranco for a 15A 1500W rig? http://brausupply.com/products/unibrau-120v-5-gallon-brew-boss-automated-brew-system

Thanks for the recommendation! However, I think I would prefer to have a controller I don't need to build myself.
 
mwm5461 said:
In an effort to learn about controller options and your opinion is there a reason why this brau supply build uses a Ranco for a 15A 1500W rig? http://brausupply.com/products/unibrau-120v-5-gallon-brew-boss-automated-brew-system

Thanks for the recommendation! However, I think I would prefer to have a controller I don't need to build myself.
Click to expand...

The Ranco will work but a 1500w element will pull 12-13 amps and the 2000w element will pull 16-18 amps so you can't use the 2000w unit. With the 1500w element it will take a long time to get ~8 gal to temp for mash and boil. It would help to insulate your pot. It's all about how much time you want to give it.

Keep in mind too that you will not have any manual control of the power to the element with the Ranco.
 
ccbadd said:
With the 1500w element it will take a long time to get ~8 gal to temp for mash and boil. It would help to insulate your pot. It's all about how much time you want to give it.
Click to expand...

Agreed. It's helpful to have another 1500 or 2000 watt element you can plug directly in to an outlet to help speed things up. No need to have temp control on the second element.
 
Thanks for the advice. In that case it seems like two 1500W elements (one of which I'll use the controller with) is my move. I am stuck with 15A outlets so are there any other controllers you recommend that I won't have to build myself?
 
mwm5461 said:
Thanks for the advice. In that case it seems like two 1500W elements (one of which I'll use the controller with) is my move. I am stuck with 15A outlets so are there any other controllers you recommend that I won't have to build myself?
Click to expand...

Never used their stuff, but Jagger Bush has a cheap 120v controller.

http://jaggerbushbrewing.com/PID-110-VOLT-CONTROLLER-2250-WATT_p_64.html

I really like my Brau Supply controller. It's a little more spendy, but very high quality. I have an older 15 amp controller. Here's a link to their new 20 amp.

http://brausupply.com/collections/e...oducts/brau-20a-120v-electric-brew-controller
 
TexasWine said:
Never used their stuff, but Jagger Bush has a cheap 120v controller.

http://jaggerbushbrewing.com/PID-110-VOLT-CONTROLLER-2250-WATT_p_64.html

I really like my Brau Supply controller. It's a little more spendy, but very high quality. I have an older 15 amp controller. Here's a link to their new 20 amp.

http://brausupply.com/collections/e...oducts/brau-20a-120v-electric-brew-controller
Click to expand...

Thank you for the recommendations TexasWine. I was actually reading a thread I believe you started awhile back regarding the Brau Supply system. I was sad to see that they use the Ranco Controller now instead of the 15 amp controller that you got. I wouldn't be able to use the 20A controller they have now in my 15A outlets, correct? Even with a 15A to 20A adaptor isn't that dangerous?

I'm happy to pay a little more for a quality 15A controller.
 
mwm5461 said:
Thank you for the recommendations TexasWine. I was actually reading a thread I believe you started awhile back regarding the Brau Supply system. I was sad to see that they use the Ranco Controller now instead of the 15 amp controller that you got. I wouldn't be able to use the 20A controller they have now in my 15A outlets, correct? Even with a 15A to 20A adaptor isn't that dangerous?

I'm happy to pay a little more for a quality 15A controller.
Click to expand...

The 20 amp controller would be fine on a standard 15 amp outlet. The amperage is determined by your connected load, not the controller. However if you go with a 2000 watt element you'll want to find a 20 amp outlet to plug the controller in to.
 
TexasWine said:
The 20 amp controller would be fine on a standard 15 amp outlet. The amperage is determined by your connected load, not the controller. However if you go with a 2000 watt element you'll want to find a 20 amp outlet to plug the controller in to.
Click to expand...

Okay so just to clarify so I don't burn my apartment down, I would be absolutely fine plugging a 1500W element into this controller: http://brausupply.com/products/brau-20a-120v-electric-brew-controller
and then using an adaptor like this to plug into my 15A kitchen outlet?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017EUTHC0/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
 
Last edited by a moderator:
yep! just make sure its a 1500w element into a 15amp circuit and you're fine
 

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