Leaky tri-clamp ball valves

[Zwerski]

Hello, brewers-

I have two new to me tri-clamp ball valves that started leaking after I cleaned and reassembled them.

After fermenting a few batches in my new (to me) Stout conical fermenter, I decided that I should disassemble the ball valves to clean and sanitize, on the advice gathered here. Indeed, upon disassembly, there was noticeable crud accumulated, and many nooks where crud could stay undisturbed. I was glad to have been able to get everything apart and nice and clean. The valves went back together (seemingly) quickly and painlessly.

Upon assembly and testing with Starsan, one of them was found to be leaking. After trying to tighten the assembly halves together, I took it apart, reassembled, and had it handled, or so I thought. It looked good enough to ferment in, and so I began that process, only to find that the leaky valve was still leaking very slowly. I remedied that by attaching a stainless cap to the end of that valve. Then a day or two later, I found that the other valve now has a very slow leak.

Has anyone else encountered this difficulty?

 

[Nagorg]

No, I haven't had that difficulty. In fact, the few times I've taken my ball valves apart I've found them to be suprisingly clean. But I attribute this to my post brew day cleaning process where I recirculate hot PBW water with my pump. I will open each valve half way, one at a time and cycling through them all. This seems to wash out anything stuck in a cranny.
YMMV

 

[Vale71]

Has anyone else encountered this difficulty?

Yes. The easiest solution is to replace all valves with butterfly valves that do not require disassembling to clean/sanitize.
Tri-clamp ball valves are an oxymoron: the most sanitary attachment (tri-clamp) combined with the least sanitary of all valve types.

 

[Yesfan]

Yes. The easiest solution is to replace all valves with butterfly valves that do not require disassembling to clean/sanitize.
Tri-clamp ball valves are an oxymoron: the most sanitary attachment (tri-clamp) combined with the least sanitary of all valve types.

Is there ever a time you would want to disassemble a butterfly valve? Curious to know since I now have a few of them.


I have my 3pc ball valves broke down to clean them and am always concerned they will never fit like they used to. There's two teflon gaskets on the ball valves. The main center one that looks like a donut and a much smaller outer thin ring like one that always seems to break in places. I've been told the outer gasket is only important in high pressure applications, but I wonder if it can contribute to a leaky valve. Can it?

 

[Vale71]

Is there ever a time you would want to disassemble a butterfly valve? Curious to know since I now have a few of them.


I have my 3pc ball valves broke down to clean them and am always concerned they will never fit like they used to. There's two teflon gaskets on the ball valves. The main center one that looks like a donut and a much smaller outer thin ring like one that always seems to break in places. I've been told the outer gasket is only important in high pressure applications, but I wonder if it can contribute to a leaky valve. Can it?

The only time you would disassemble a butterfly valve is if it starts leaking because the inner gasket needs replacement. This can take a very long time in homebrew applications where the frequency of open/close cycles is rather low.
I'm not familiar with the type of 3 piece ball valve you described, maybe you could post a picture?

 

[Yesfan]

It's just your run of the mill NPT valves like most of us use.

 

[Vale71]

I meant a picture of the gaskets. The ball valves I've seen so far only have one conical gasket on each side of the ball, from your description it seems yours have two separate pieces?

 

[Yesfan]

Sorry about that. How's this?

There's usually one on each side of the ball in a 3pc valve. The above pic looks like one seal, but most of them the outer ring is separate. I have a 3 way ball valve that I took apart for cleaning and the outer ring on it was broken. After cleaning and reassembling, it would leak. So even though I was told the outer ring portion is mostly for higher pressure applications, I still wonder if that could be a culprit.

I still have my kettle's ball valves to put together, so I'll know for sure once I fill the kettle for a leak test.

 

[Vale71]

Does the outer ring exert pressure on the conical gasket? If that is the case then I would say it is essential to the valve sealing properly.

 

[Yesfan]

Does the outer ring exert pressure on the conical gasket? If that is the case then I would say it is essential to the valve sealing properly.

If that reply is to me, then my apologies to the OP. In my situation, I'm referring to the valve on my boil kettle. I got lost in the conversation and didn't realize his situation was his conical's valve. I started my own NPT vs Triclamp thread HERE to avoid anymore derailment.

@Zwerski Sorry for the hijack.

 

[Nagorg]

I did see the "Triclamp" in the OP but honestly glanced right over that. My comments were about by ball valves on my boil kettle, MLT and pump. Those are exactly the same as what @Yesfan referred to and while I've only taken them apart a few times, I still havent had leak problems as I mentioned.

Maybe @Zwerski could show us a pic of the ball valves he has on his conical. Some are more easy to disassemble than others.

I do have a Triclamp ball valve that I use sometimes but it dosent stay on my conical. Its designed for easy "quick clean". But if you did even think about new valves, I'd suggest going with butterfly instead.

 

[Bobby_M]

Most of the time there is a leak problem with ball valves after disassembly, it's because the seats (one or both) were swapped between bodies. I know it's not intuitive but given machining tolerances and how tight or loose the coupling bolts were on any give valve, the PTFE seats get broken in differently. You can try juggling the seats to see if it stops. In the future, keep all valves and innards together. If you do decide to go with butterfly valves, these are so sweet:

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/tc15_butterfly_ss_light.htm

 

[Zwerski]

Maybe @Zwerski could show us a pic of the ball valves he has on his conical. Some are more easy to disassemble than others.

I attached a pic of the exact model I am using. The body disassembles with a pair of crescent wrenches. You can see the seem here where the face of the flange meets the valve body.

 

[Zwerski]

Sorry about that. How's this?

There's usually one on each side of the ball in a 3pc valve. The above pic looks like one seal, but most of them the outer ring is separate. I have a 3 way ball valve that I took apart for cleaning and the outer ring on it was broken. After cleaning and reassembling, it would leak. So even though I was told the outer ring portion is mostly for higher pressure applications, I still wonder if that could be a culprit.

I still have my kettle's ball valves to put together, so I'll know for sure once I fill the kettle for a leak test.

There are two of these, one on either side of the actual ball. When I got the valves apart, I didn't keep track of the location of either one, and may well have switched them from their original place.

Could this have been avoided by leaving them assembled and boiling them instead?

 

[Yesfan]

Most of the time there is a leak problem with ball valves after disassembly, it's because the seats (one or both) were swapped between bodies. I know it's not intuitive but given machining tolerances and how tight or loose the coupling bolts were on any give valve, the PTFE seats get broken in differently. You can try juggling the seats to see if it stops. In the future, keep all valves and innards together. If you do decide to go with butterfly valves, these are so sweet:

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/tc15_butterfly_ss_light.htm

There are two of these, one on either side of the actual ball. When I got the valves apart, I didn't keep track of the location of either one, and may well have switched them from their original place.

Could this have been avoided by leaving them assembled and boiling them instead?

Possibly. Others have ran hot PBW through their valves and fiddle with the handle so as much as the ball can get contact with the PBW as possible, then a hot rinse. I like to break mine down that way I can take a brush to every nook and cranny. The valve on my Chugger pump was pretty nasty and I'd always made a habit of running 180F+ water or wort through it to sanitize a bit. I just haven't stayed on top of the cleaning part like I should.

 

[Yesfan]

What I would do too, is take the valve apart again and and swap the gaskets. Bobby M's post about gaskets being swapped between bodies is spot on. You could probably go a bit further as trying to keep them in the same spot as they were in the valve (input to input, output to output). The valve on my kettle has a small leak now.

 

[fermbreezy]

You said new to you. Is there a chance the seats/innards are a bit dried out? Gasket materials wear out and depending on how they were treated before, they may have shrunk a bit and the gunk was actually keeping the seal. Whenever I reassemble a valve, I use just a light film of food-grade silicone grease on all mating surfaces. Run some warm/hot cleaning solution through them afterward if you're worried about getting the stuff in your next batch but a light film shouldn't affect anything.

 

[Horseflesh]

I learned what Bobby said about swapping valve parts the hard way.

I’d like to switch to butterflies but unfortunately I need finer control than I think they can provide. Sometimes I need the valve open just a tiny bit.

 

[Bean]

I just picked up my first sets of butterfly for my cold side and had to put one on my hot side because I needed the handle to go the other way. (yes, I know butterflies on hot side are frowned upon.) As for control, I still have the control I need especially with the trigger style and actually like it more than the ball because I know the valve is in the exact spot I need.
Downside... if you over tighten the handle screw on the version I have it pulls the butterfly up so it won't seal. Learned that the very hard way..