Latest Lager Redux - what I have learned.

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Just took a sample... whereas the tartness was very subtle before secondary (wanted to harvest the yeast cake), this lager is now an acetaldehyde bomb. Like just absolutely undrinkable.

So... lager it longer, or what?
 
Sounds like you might have racked the beer to a secondary a bit early. The yeast should clean up any acetaldehyde produced during fermentation, but only after is finished with the sugars. I tend to leave lagers in the fermenter for 3-4 weeks before I rack into the keg for lagering. It could also be caused by oxidation. I'd give it some more cold conditioning time, that should help reduce the fruitiness.
 
Yeah, I racked to secondary back in october before I got my refractometer. Didn't take a gravity reading, just assumed. (I have a hydro, but I'm really lazy about using it because of the amount of beer I have to steal to test gravity.)

Having the refractometer stopped me from kegging an ale that hadn't completed fermentation this weekend.
 
I can't remember if it came up in this thread, but if you are using your refractometer to take gravity readings after fermentation has begun, be sure to use an adjustment calculator. Your refractometer reading will be incorrect. Also be sure to adjust for temperature unless your refractometer automatically does so.
 
I can't remember if it came up in this thread, but if you are using your refractometer to take gravity readings after fermentation has begun, be sure to use an adjustment calculator. Your refractometer reading will be incorrect. Also be sure to adjust for temperature unless your refractometer automatically does so.

Yes, I am using an alcohol adjustment calculator, and the refractometer is ATC.
 
So I haven't had an opportunity to lager it since January, when I brewed a spiced ale that took over a month to finish fermenting, but I pulled a sample last night anyway just to see, along with my other lager also waiting to cold condition.

The estery fruitiness has subsided but both lagers go like this: OK, it tastes like beer, this might be decen--BAM. Butterscotch. BAM. Sour Apple.

I can't seem to get a good solid answer as to whether cold conditioning will fix these flaws or not. Some say yes, others say no. Either way, I turned the temp controller down to 30 last night. According to my thermapen, it's actually 5 degrees higher in there, so we're talking 35.

I hate that these things are plugging up my pipeline and might not even be drinkable in the end. I haven't brewed since January.
 
Just a beginner here trying to learn about lagers before I invest time and money on it. I have a quick question that maybe could help. If there it is acetaldehyde or something like that which causes the butterscotch/sour apple, then could you just add some more yeast to help clean that up?

I understand that might make more work than it's worth, but maybe some fresh yeast could help. Again, im a beginner and just shooting in the dark.
 
I doubt that will have much effect. There's already yeast in suspension; adding more when the majority have dropped out post-fermentation isn't going to encourage the already-suspended yeast to "clean the beer" any faster; in fact the most likely outcome is the newly added yeast cells, with nothing to ferment, just drop out immediately.
 
This winter I had a Maibock that went from OK to sensational right around three months. Coincidentally I read a week or two ago that others have had the same experience, the three month mark can be pretty critical with lagered beers.

Looks like you brewed in October so ... I don't know if you are going to be able to bring this one back. One thought is to warm it back up to fermenting temps and add some additional of the same yeast and give it an rest and then return to lagering for another month or so. As far as I am aware only the yeast can correct such a problem.
 
One of my brew club members just fixed a lager with DMS with new yeast. He made a small stater and pitched at high kreausen SP? let it sit at Room temp for a week then went back to lagering. Worked well.
 
I'm going to pull some samples today and see if the diacetyl and acetaldehyde have subsided any since I put the temps back down.

If after a couple more weeks it's not working, I'm going to follow the suggestion and add some starters at high krausen, let them ferment out at lager temps, then transfer to kegs for lagering and to free up my ferm freezer.
 
Welp, for some reason, while last week's samples tasted like otherwise OK beer with tons of diacetyl and acetaldehyde, yesterday's samples tasted like complete ass with diacetyl and acetaldehyde.

So, this weekend, I'm going to be making a gallon lager yeast starter, pitching at high krausen, letting them sit at 65 for a week, and transferring to kegs to lager. At least that way I can free up my fermentation fridge for ales.

If time doesn't heal, I'll dump, and revisit lager brewing in 2013.
 
OK. Made two half-gallon W-34/70 starters this weekend. Had krausen today, so I just dumped them into the two lager batches, which I then took out of the freezer to come up to temp.

A little concerned about oxygen but I'm hoping the yeast chew through it. Both lagers also had a thin waxy film on top. I'm hoping it's not an infection.

Anyway. Next time I do a lager, I'm going to be doing the forced fermentation test so I can ramp up for a D-rest at 85% attenuation, and I'll be leaving it on the cake until I can lager in the keg.
 
Damnedest thing. So 9 days ago I pitched the starters and raised the temperature to ~68F. I pulled samples today and both beers have improved dramatically. They still taste "yeasty", but lagering will help that for sure.

I've got 2 empty kegs; this weekend they're going straight in.
 
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