Latest e-BIAB Panel Plan (Dream)

[jeffmeh]

The advantage to having college bills preventing the spend to start building, is that changes on paper are pretty cheap.

Inspired by JEnglish's build and specifically the compact panel he used (BUD Industries NBB-15243 NEMA Box with Solid Door, 11-17/64" Length x 7-15/32" Width x 5-1/2" Height), I took some time to mock-up my latest machinations for a single PID, single pump, 240v, e-BIAB controller. It will be tight, but I have confirmed that it will work.

Here's a mock-up of the front:

1) Illuminated selector switch controlling a contactor for main power
2) Illuminated selector switches to control the pump, the alarm/buzzer, and a contactor to cut element power
3) An element on indicator

Mounted vertically, the inputs and outputs would go through the bottom. Using a Neutrik Powercon panel mount for the element power allows everything to fit. The other components are the flanged inlet, flanged outlet, and RTD probe mount.

As always, questions and comments are welcome.

 

[kzimmer0817]

Jeffmeh,

I noticed that no one has replied to your thread, although many have viewed it. I hate it when no one responds to my thread, so I'll be the first - albeit the least qualified.

I really like the look of your panel. Your design should work in my 12" x 12" box.

I'm assuming that:
1. Your lighted "Element" switch will control a contactor that allows the element to fire when called upon by the PID. IOW, your element won't heat up your water if you forget to turn on this switch.
2. Your lighted "Power" or E-Stop button confuses me. Is this a NC switch that you "smash" in to cut the power off should an emergency develop - and must be turned and pulled out to reactivate?
3. Your "Element Firing" light simply indicates that the element is actually firing.

I haven't actually built a control box, but I spent a lot of time mulling over various designs. I'd like to offer the following suggestions based upon things I was considering as I daydreamed about mine:

1. I would substitute an illuminated "Main Power" switch (NO) in place of the "Element Firing" indicator. This would be a 120V switch that would energize a 220V contactor to turn power on to the entire controller. It may not even need to be an illuminated switch (although I'd want one), since you would know that the power was on when the PID lit up. I know a few guys have installed an indicator light onto their element housing to know when the element is actually powering. I don't see the need for that. Basically, assume that the element will be on if the Element switch is on and the temp on the PID is below the setpoint.

2. I like the idea behind PJ's E-Stop which "simulates" a ground fault causing the GFCI breaker trip thereby killing power to the entire box. Whether your GFCI breaker is in your breaker panel or a separate spa panel, causing it to trip will make sure that there is NO POWER anywhere inside your controller box - including its power cord. While a "kill switch" might be fine for many types of machines, I like the fact that the E-Stop shown in all of PJ's diagrams kills the electric current several feet from the brew area - especially for the homebuilt ones. I say this with the full understanding that Kal's panel does not include an E-Stop (although it includes other protections).

Respectfully,
Keith

 

[jeffmeh]

Keith,

Thanks for the reply. Your assumptions are correct.

Regarding the e-stop, I was thinking of just using it as a main power switch, wired to the coil of a contactor that feeds everything in the panel. Since I posted this, I read a review of that illuminated e-stop that suggested it was fairly flimsy, so I have changed my plan to go with an illuminated selector switch like all of the other switches.

I like the idea of having a light telling me that power is actually flowing to the element, but I agree that it is by no means mandatory. It would be a 240v LED wired in parallel with the element.

As far as using P-J's e-stop design to cause a ground fault to trip the GFCI, the key advantage is what you have stated, that if you trip the GFCI there is no electrical potential from that point all the way into your panel. A minor disadvantage is that it is dependent upon the GFCI not failing (and they do), but this can certainly be mitigated by testing the e-stop regularly (I would probably do it upon firing up the panel each brew session).

Kal's design, which I have mimicked, uses a switch to close and open a contactor between where the power enters the panel and the rest of the panel. So unlike when a GFCI trips, when the main power switch is off, there is electrical potential at the switch itself, at the line terminals of the contactor, and in the power cord. I am perfectly comfortable with that, as I am with turning a selector switch as opposed to hitting an e-stop button to cut power.

I think either method provides plenty of safety margin, and like many things it can come down to personal preference.

I have mocked up the internal component placement and the wiring, just to make sure everything would fit in the small box I am thinking of using, if that would be at all helpful to you. It is nowhere as pretty as one of P-J's wiring diagrams, but it is less abstract since it corresponds to the physical layout.

 

[kzimmer0817]

I think either method provides plenty of safety margin, and like many things it can come down to personal preference.

I appreciate your reasoning - as well as being understanding of the things I brought up. I may end up purchasing High Gravity's EBC-SV as opposed to trying to assemble one myself. None of the prebuilt controllers appears to have the E-Stop.

My breaker panel happens to have a GFCI breaker, because the previous owner had an outdoor spa. Additionally, one should have the panel unplugged before opening it up.

I wish you well for your build. I trust that you will chronicle your build on this thread.

Keith

 

[jeffmeh]

I do plan to document the build when I get to it.

If you like the High Gravity EBC-SV, then by all means go for it. Personally, I think the infinite power control is unnecessary when you have a PID with manual mode, but it the unit is reasonably priced. I would expect that if you were to build something equivalent, you would spend 50-60% of what they are charging. I would expect to build mine with more features (but without the PWM) for about 80% of what they are charging for theirs.

 

[kzimmer0817]

I do plan to document the build when I get to it.

I look forward to watching it. I've learned a lot from folks' build threads.

If you like the High Gravity EBC-SV, then by all means go for it.

It's not that I like it that much. I really would like to build my own. I am pretty handy with my hands, and I understand some basics of wiring. In fact, I already have a circuit diagram that I was planning to use. The vast majority of my tools - which isn't saying much - are for wood working along with various wrenches.

The main thing that draws me towards a pre-built controller is "my time". As I've mentioned in another thread, my other main hobby is an old pipe organ consisting of appr. 500 pipes that I would like to get assembled in this lifetime. It's very labor-intensive and I've already thrown too much money at it.

I'm not a rich physician, but, at the moment, I have a little more money than free time. Therefore, I have to prioritize what parts of these hobbies I do for myself and which I sub out.

Thanks, again, for posting your build. Please don't take any of my comments as being negative towards your ideas.

Keith

 

[jeffmeh]

Thanks for your input. I certainly perceive nothing negative in our discourse, as we are just discussing options, pros, cons, and preferences. An as I said in my preface, it may be a while before I justify the cash flow to get to this.