Last attempt at a amber was a flop :(

[bracconiere]

So i wanted an amber batch before last. i tried to keep it simple. just 20lb's pale, and 1 lb 60L.

i didn't care for it.

now i have some caravienna.

What do you guys think of 17lb's pale, 1lb caravienna, 4oz 60L? should give me 10 gallons of 1.061 wort.

i got some bravo hops i'll throw in for 60 min, but i'm not a hop head, so not worried about that so much.

i'm looking for something malty, but with a touch of carmel for excitment. i guess my question is do you 4oz of the 60L will be enough, or should i go with 8oz. being that the whole pound was over kill i';m not sure if i'm over correcting with only using 4oz.




edit: style i'm shooting for is "Mikey Likes It!" it's a pretty forgiving one...

 

[marc1]

So i wanted an amber batch before last. i tried to keep it simple. just 20lb's pale, and 1 lb 60L.

i didn't care for it.

now i have some caravienna.

What do you guys think of 17lb's pale, 1lb caravienna, 4oz 60L? should give me 10 gallons of 1.061 wort.

i got some bravo hops i'll throw in for 60 min, but i'm not a hop head, so not worried about that so much.

i'm looking for something malty, but with a touch of carmel for excitment. i guess my question is do you 4oz of the 60L will be enough, or should i go with 8oz. being that the whole pound was over kill i';m not sure if i'm over correcting with only using 4oz.




edit: style i'm shooting for is "Mikey Likes It!" it's a pretty forgiving one...

Caravienna is also a crystal malt - a pound of crystal 60 was too much, so you think a pound of ~C20 plus a quarter pound of C60 will be good? What didn't you like? If it was too much crystal before, that's not going to help. If it was just too much darker crystal flavor, then go for it!

 

[bracconiere]

What didn't you like?

too much darker crystal flavor,

i was hoping for more roasty darkness, but it was dark and carmely.

i'm assuming that the caravienna, is like munich, and not converted in the husk before toasting, so should be roasty not carmely....

i haven't brewed with store bought malt in a while so i wasn't expecting the overwhelming carmel tone.

but there is a difference between cara's and crystals. kinda like shades of rue vs shades of candi syrup

 

[ba-brewer]

Caravienna sounds like a crystal malt. Abbey malt is a type of munich, and it will add maltiness and some say a dryness to the mouthfeel.

 

[bracconiere]

i'm nopt 100% on this, but cara vienna is like munich and vienna malt that was just kilned at a higher temp to get it darker....so it isn't carmelized sugar, it's toasted starch...

 

[ba-brewer]

If it does not have diastatic power then it is not like munich or vienna.

edit: removed an "it".

There are a few similar malts , abbey, aromatic and biscuit one is type of munich the others are either roasted or a crystal malt i believe. The is another british malt called Amber malt that can add maltiness.

 

[Tom Foolery]

Per: @Yooper 4-26-2014

Yes. Caravienne is another name for a crystal malt (cara- anything is a crystal/caramel malt).

A description from brew365: CaraVienne is a pale to medium crystal-type malt produced by De Wolf-Cosyns Maltings malting in Belgium. Like other 'cara' style malts this variety is malted using a technique where green (sprouted) malted is drum-roasted to produce some non-fermentable sugars. The result is some added sweetness and body. In addition, CaraVienne is then roasted to about 24L to produce a slightly toasty, and smoothly sweet malt.
Typical Use : Adjunct
Lovibond : 20 - 24 Lovibond
Origination : Belgium
Flavor/Aroma : Sweet, Bready, Light roast, smooth maltiness.
Styles : Suitable substitute for Caramel malts (Belgian Abbey Ales, English Bitter, German Marzen, US APA.


In other words, it's another name for a crystal malt produced by a Belgian maltster. It doesn't have anything to do with Vienna malt.

 

[tracer bullet]

Caravienne (not vienna) is also a crystal malt - a pound of crystal 60 was too much, so you think a pound of ~C20 plus a quarter pound of C60 will be good? What didn't you like? If it was too much crystal before, that's not going to help. If it was just too much darker crystal flavor, then go for it!

FWIW agreed to the above, Carvienne is a crystal malt in the 20-ish range. Diastatic is zero. Doesn't sound like a great recipe, just pale with some crystal, unless you hop it up and even then...

I don't brew ambers, have thought about it a few times, but not yet. Mine would probably have some Munich in it as well, 10% perhaps and maybe a tiny amount of additional crystal in the 120 range (very low single digits). I don't personally care for sweet beer so I'd probably have crystal 20 (or Caravienne) at 5% or so, if that.

Don't necessarily do that, but do consider some Munich if you brew it again. It'll get you closer to "malty" I think.

 

[bracconiere]

damn, thanks for telling me that....i'm experimenting now to see if 11oz's will self convert to double check. but what you're saying is me think caravienna was like 20L munich but with vienna instead of pale, was wrong......

 

[bracconiere]

thanks for the lesson guys! guess i'll skip the amber, and just use 8oz's caravienna, and toss in 2oz's of black patent too, for a light brown.....lol

 

[bracconiere]

i'm experimenting now to see if 11oz's will self convert to double check

yeah yeah, i know...if it's crystal malt i can't tell......realized that straining the bag....

 

[Transamguy77]

I would add some roasted barley to give it that roasted character that your looking for. I’ve also used some marris otter to “amber” it up.

 

[bracconiere]

I would add some roasted barley to give it that roasted character that your looking for. I’ve also used some marris otter to “amber” it up.

good idea, but i'd skip the patent, and just add 2oz's roast barley....or hell i've been wanting to try a coffee brew. got some cocoa powder too. definitely not going to be what i started out thinking....

 

[Transamguy77]

good idea, but i'd skip the patent, and just add 2oz's roast barley....or hell i've been wanting to try a coffee brew. got some cocoa powder too. definitely not going to be what i started out thinking....

Yes I’d skip it too, but I thought you weren’t putting it in already so I just went with that line of thought.

 

[bracconiere]

Yes I’d skip it too, but I thought you weren’t putting it in already so I just went with that line of thought.

i don't plan on brewing this till friday..maybe saturday, so i have time to figure it out...

 

[ba-brewer]

I believe you add amylase enzyme to some of your beers, did you add it to your first amber and did it attenuate as low as normally does with that much crystal 60?

 

[bracconiere]

I believe you add amylase enzyme to some of your beers, did you add it to your first amber and did it attenuate as low as normally does with that much crystal 60?

i add gluco to everything, and i tossed it in the cold crash fridge at 1.005, didn't check gravity after it was cold. would assume it went down couple more points. og was 1.057...(home malt so only 80%) it was like toffee that got sorta burnt. it did mellow by the second keg though.

and it wasn't my first amber! lol, it was the first time i've used 60L in many years and didn't expect what i got from it.....

 

[ba-brewer]

First in regard to this thread was my thought.

I use roughly the same percentage of crystal malt (%5 ) in many of my British ales and don't get overwhelming flavor from that. They have a much higher FG of 1012 or 1014 so maybe the lower FG amplifies the caramel flavors some how. The burnt flavor sounds like a higher color crystal more like 120 or 150.

 

[bracconiere]

lower FG amplifies the caramel flavors some how.

could very well be, maybe without the sweetness the bitter is more pronounced....

 

[jdauria]

Try something like this...https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/270146/c7d-american-amber-ale-annie-johnson-pending-brew-date- The original brewer of this Amber Ale, Annie Johnson was the Homebrewer of the Year in 2013. I brewed her recipe of this that was on the Brewing Network forums (currently dow), so not sure how much the the person who posted it changed it. But when I brewed it way back in 2014, it was my first beer to score over a 40 in a beer comp. Actually brewing it again this weekend, but using Mecca Grade Estate Pale Ale malt and hops I have in stock instead.

 

[marc1]

i add gluco to everything, and i tossed it in the cold crash fridge at 1.005, didn't check gravity after it was cold. would assume it went down couple more points. og was 1.057...(home malt so only 80%) it was like toffee that got sorta burnt. it did mellow by the second keg though.

and it wasn't my first amber! lol, it was the first time i've used 60L in many years and didn't expect what i got from it.....

What did you end up doing?

 

[bracconiere]

What did you end up doing?

well, i brewed it sunday into monday morning...went with 20lb's pale, 1 lb caravienna...and hopped it with 2 oz's bravo for 60, and like 5oz's cascade for 10......smells hoppy.

now that i think of it, probably should have gone with 2lb's caravienna, just to get familar with it...

OG was [email protected] 1.070...it smelled good going into the fermenter, should be on tap in a couple more days....

 

[tracer bullet]

Consider some Munich malt next time, give it some malty flavor. And some higher L crystal / caramel in place of the caravienne. Then it might be an amber.

You said in post 1 you wanted malty, and a touch of caramel, and I think you maybe went backwards. Didn't add anything malty flavored and went even lighter on the crystal / caramel thing.

Also hit up a store and buy an amber or two, if you can do the make-your-own-6-pack options. See if that's really what you want. Might not...

 

[bracconiere]

Consider some Munich malt next time, give it some malty flavor. And some higher L crystal / caramel in place of the caravienne. Then it might be an amber.

You said in post 1 you wanted malty, and a touch of caramel, and I think you maybe went backwards. Didn't add anything malty flavored and went even lighter on the crystal / caramel thing.

Also hit up a store and buy an amber or two, if you can do the make-your-own-6-pack options. See if that's really what you want. Might not...

yeah i was thinking, with i thought caravienna was...i would have been better off buying 20L munich...but alas, as long as this ferments. i'll be glad it's alcoholic...just maybe not the week of joy i was shooting for...

and if my hard pour of hops without even weighing them for the 10 minute cascade makes it hoppy, and balance the toasted sugar of the caravienna,