Large Starters

[BigTerp]

What do you all use for you big starters, larger than 2L? I have a 2L flask and continually find myself needing something bigger for most 10 gallon batches I brew. Trying to avoid buying a 5L flask, but various gallon jugs I've tried have a convex bottom and always throw my stir bar. Any specific brand of juice or something that comes in a flat bottom glass jug? I'll break down and buy a 5L flask if need be, but would like to try to find an alternative first.

Also, I have a Stir Starter...... http://www.stirstarters.com/ Anyone know if it will even safely hold a 5L flask?

 

[eluterio]

What do you all use for you big starters, larger than 2L? I have a 2L flask and continually find myself needing something bigger for most 10 gallon batches I brew. Trying to avoid buying a 5L flask, but various gallon jugs I've tried have a convex bottom and always throw my stir bar. Any specific brand of juice or something that comes in a flat bottom glass jug? I'll break down and buy a 5L flask if need be, but would like to try to find an alternative first.

Also, I have a Stir Starter...... http://www.stirstarters.com/ Anyone know if it will even safely hold a 5L flask?

That stir plate will hold a 5L flask. That's what I use and honestly, Ive used the 1 gallon jugs and have been successful in not getting the stir bar knocked off. Id just break down and by a 5L flask worth the money. I was lucky when I bought my gallon glass jug it was concaved but I was able to run it on low speed just enough to agitate the starter.

 

[shtoive87]

I use a Carlo Rossi wine jug. The bottom is a bit flatter than apple cider jugs that I've seen.

 

[BBL_Brewer]

I use glass jugs. I hand picked them from a few dozen and chose ones that had flatter bottoms though. Fruit stands and orchards are a good place to look for empty jug buys. Not really an option this time of year though.

 

[sky4meplease]

I use 2 gallon plastic buckets.
I hand cut an 1 1/2" hole in the top and installed a rubber grommet for a foam stopper.
It fits on my stir plate with a large stir bar.
Good growth, lots of head space the only trouble is I can't see inside.
4 liter starters are no problem.

 

[mcgimpkins]

You could get a 1 gallon plastic round jug.

 

[sky4meplease]

What do you all use for you big starters, larger than 2L? I have a 2L flask and continually find myself needing something bigger for most 10 gallon batches I brew. Trying to avoid buying a 5L flask, but various gallon jugs I've tried have a convex bottom and always throw my stir bar. Any specific brand of juice or something that comes in a flat bottom glass jug? I'll break down and buy a 5L flask if need be, but would like to try to find an alternative first.



Also, I have a Stir Starter...... http://www.stirstarters.com/ Anyone know if it will even safely hold a 5L flask?

The description for your product says it will fit a 2L flask.

 

[JonM]

You can always get a second 2L flask and make 2 starters. Do one, put it in the fridge and let the other run on the plate.

Or just keep the one flask, cold crash one 2L starter, decant, and pour the slurry into a sanitized mason jar or something and then make another 2L starter.

 

[IslandLizard]

Although the convex bottom of growlers and wine jugs is not helping the cause, the throwing of the stir bar is mostly due to imperfect coupling between the stir bar and magnet(s) underneath. Using 2 strong(er) magnets mounted to a steel strip or washer or using one long rectangular shaped magnet yields a stronger magnetic field better able to drive the stir bar. The distance between the 2 magnets (or poles) should roughly match the length of the stir bar for optimum coupling. Then the distance between the stir bar and the driving magnets should be kept to a minimum.

I use 2 gallon plastic buckets.
I hand cut an 1 1/2" hole in the top and installed a rubber grommet for a foam stopper.
It fits on my stir plate with a large stir bar.
Good growth, lots of head space the only trouble is I can't see inside.
4 liter starters are no problem.

Small plastic buckets, such a great idea! As long as you can keep adequate sanitary conditions. A clear PET bucket would allow you to look inside.

You could get a 1 gallon plastic round jug.

Are these the same jugs as those they sell vinegar in at the supermarket? They run $2.50-$3 including the vinegar. I've used those as small batch fermentors and must say they work very well. A bit hard to clean, though, as the krausen ring can be tenacious. I often need to use a (soft) bottle brush and wonder if that still scratches the plastic, although I've not had unintentionally infected beers from them. The bottom usually has a seam and is also a bit concave.

 

[Brettomomyces]

I use these guys, I have 1 8L and a few 4L. You can find em on eBay for not too much, though the 8L cost me about $30. They're rated for pretty high temps so I transfer into it from the pot after a few minutes and allow it to cool in a water bath in the sink.

 

[BigTerp]

Thanks for all the responses.

What do you guys covering the tops of some of these containers with? Obviously a foam stopper won't fit some of the suggestions.

 

[BigTerp]

That stir plate will hold a 5L flask. That's what I use and honestly, Ive used the 1 gallon jugs and have been successful in not getting the stir bar knocked off. Id just break down and by a 5L flask worth the money. I was lucky when I bought my gallon glass jug it was concaved but I was able to run it on low speed just enough to agitate the starter.

Where did you get your 5L flask from? Is the neck narrow enough to use the same universal foam stopper a standard 2L flask does?

 

[mikehoover]

Where did you get your 5L flask from? Is the neck narrow enough to use the same universal foam stopper a standard 2L flask does?

Just search Amazon for a 5L Erlenmeyer flask. Should be able to get one for less than $50. I have two of them now for making big starters for lagers.

 

[sky4meplease]

You could build a small raised platform the same height as your stir plate and cut a hole in it for the plate. That way the platform carries the weight of the 5L flask rather than the stir plate itself.
I recently saw the 5L flask at the LHBS and it is a beast.

 

[CGish]

Thanks for all the responses.

What do you guys covering the tops of some of these containers with? Obviously a foam stopper won't fit some of the suggestions.

If you buy a plastic bucket, which is what I use for larger starters, just buy a lid for it as well. You have to make a couple holes, but the price is almost impossible to beat.

I have reused the 5L ice cream buckets. The lids are flexible enough to leave one section covered but not sealed completely.

This was the two starters for my hefe batches last summer. You can see that the lid edge facing the front is not quite sealed:


Here are the two gallon buckets I use - got them at Walmart. you can see where I put grommets in the lids for airlocks:


Good Luck
Cody

 

[Redhawk96]

I struggled for awhile with the same issue, trying to find a large container that was cheap and easy to use. I ended up getting a 5L Erlenmyer flask off Amazon for a little more than $50, and it has been well worth it.

 

[IslandLizard]

I use these guys, I have 1 8L and a few 4L. You can find em on eBay for not too much, though the 8L cost me about $30. They're rated for pretty high temps so I transfer into it from the pot after a few minutes and allow it to cool in a water bath in the sink.

I too am wondering what you use for the top? A piece of aluminum foil?

Regarding the use of aluminum foil on jars and flasks as we use in brewing, I've noticed for a long time already, the foil develops pin holes, many of them. I think it's the Starsan that attacks it. In regular duty Al foil I saw as many as 10-20 per square inch. Now using HeavyDuty foil instead, it's not as bad, but finding 5 pinholes in a typical flask cover after a week is not unusual. When holding them up to a strong light source, it looks like a sieve.

$30 for the 8l ones? Yowsers!
In food prep they use those squarish polycarbonate containers, usually a gallon plus an inch or so for the rim. They're thick and durable, and fairly cheap.

 

[Brettomomyces]

I too am wondering what you use for the top? A piece of aluminum foil?

Regarding the use of aluminum foil on jars and flasks as we use in brewing, I've noticed for a long time already, the foil develops pin holes, many of them. I think it's the Starsan that attacks it. In regular duty Al foil I saw as many as 10-20 per square inch. Now using HeavyDuty foil instead, it's not as bad, but finding 5 pinholes in a typical flask cover after a week is not unusual. When holding them up to a strong light source, it looks like a sieve.

$30 for the 8l ones? Yowsers!
In food prep they use those squarish polycarbonate containers, usually a gallon plus an inch or so for the rim. They're thick and durable, and fairly cheap.

The 8L was kinda pricey, but that included the lid and shipping. The clear cambro poly containers are a little more $$ but incredibly durable and scratch resistant. You can get the opaque versions for significantly less.

I use these, they sit just slightly loose so it allows some air in. I work food service that's where I got the idea The square containers do work on a stir plate, but don't do as well a job circulating, and it was kind of a pain getting all the yeast out after crashing with the corners.

Below is a pic of the 8L and 4L in action, that little Hanna stir plate was plenty strong to stir 6L of wort with a 1" bar. It was a little noisy until I found the sweet spot for balancing. I also have to stick a magazine under my containers when I use the cigar box plate cause I made that one and didn't do a great job, haha (bar throws).

On the star san vs aluminum, the acidity of star san could definitely eat away at the foil. Another food prep thing, when doing a pot roast/brisket or some kind of braised meat in the oven I always put a piece of parchment between the foil and the meat because the marinades will literally destroy the foil during the cook and leave weird holes where the meat was touching it.

 

[StonesBally]

On a side note while searching the Internets the other day I thought about the starters I was making and my flasks and how hard it is to split up my 5L between two fermenters. Why don't we use borosilicate beakers instead of flasks? Does anyone use them? I would see the larger opening and the pouring spout coming in quite handy. I see they are also avaliable in many sizes and comparably priced to flasks.

 

[m00ps]

On a side note while searching the Internets the other day I thought about the starters I was making and my flasks and how hard it is to split up my 5L between two fermenters. Why don't we use borosilicate beakers instead of flasks? Does anyone use them? I would see the larger opening and the pouring spout coming in quite handy. I see they are also avaliable in many sizes and comparably priced to flasks.

Flasks are used for their thermal conductivity. They have a much greater surface area thats heated in relation to the volume of the container. So a 2L flask is going to get to boiling quicker than a 2L beaker. Also, the smaller opening is handy in using stoppers and preventing anything bad from getting in the starter

 

[eluterio]

Where did you get your 5L flask from? Is the neck narrow enough to use the same universal foam stopper a standard 2L flask does?

I got it off of amazon and no its much wider. I tried to use a stopper size 10 and it was too small.

 

[eluterio]

Where did you get your 5L flask from? Is the neck narrow enough to use the same universal foam stopper a standard 2L flask does?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006UKI9X4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Another advantage of using a flask, you can pour hot wort directly into the flask without worrying too much of it cracking. Ive done 10 starters since Ive had it and went from boiling wort in my pot to flask. I also have a pot big enough that it will flask will fit and I can use less cold water and ice to give it an ice bath. On the amazon site it looks like size 12 stopper is needed. FYI I use foil and place over the opening works well.

 

[Gavin C]

They are $40 on morebeer.com and free shipping if you're getting some ingredients or other stuff and get it over the free shipping threshold.

I've not seen better price.

Big Starter, big flask.

 

[mcgimpkins]

Are these the same jugs as those they sell vinegar in at the supermarket? They run $2.50-$3 including the vinegar. I've used those as small batch fermentors and must say they work very well. A bit hard to clean, though, as the krausen ring can be tenacious. I often need to use a (soft) bottle brush and wonder if that still scratches the plastic, although I've not had unintentionally infected beers from them. The bottom usually has a seam and is also a bit concave.

Yea they are the same, I've only used one once then my wife bought me a 5L erlenmeyer flask as a present, and I haven't looked back. I did always think they were a cheap alternative. In addition it is nice to know you can use a vinegar one. I was too paranoid about my beer having a vinegar taste.

I have to admit, the cheap alternatives on here are pretty good ideas for people that don't want to shill out $40-$50.

 

[eluterio]

They are $40 on morebeer.com and free shipping if you're getting some ingredients or other stuff and get it over the free shipping threshold.

I've not seen better price.

Big Starter, big flask.

Benefits of having a gas stove.

 

[d3track]

They are $40 on morebeer.com and free shipping if you're getting some ingredients or other stuff and get it over the free shipping threshold.

I've not seen better price.

Big Starter, big flask.

I ended up getting the more beer flask as well when I was in the same spot as the OP. Ordered a bunch of 1# and 1/2# packages of DME with it to get the free shipping. The 1/2# packages are really nice to have on hand.

 

[303Dan]

That stir plate will hold a 5L flask. That's what I use and honestly, Ive used the 1 gallon jugs and have been successful in not getting the stir bar knocked off. Id just break down and by a 5L flask worth the money. I was lucky when I bought my gallon glass jug it was concaved but I was able to run it on low speed just enough to agitate the starter.

That's the stir plate I have and I also use it with a 5L flask. You have to be a little careful balancing it, and I've found you can't use a very big stir bar with it, but it works. I go up to 3L in it and still get decent stirring/agitation with a 1" stir bar.

 

[eluterio]

That's the stir plate I have and I also use it with a 5L flask. You have to be a little careful balancing it, and I've found you can't use a very big stir bar with it, but it works. I go up to 3L in it and still get decent stirring/agitation with a 1" stir bar.

Agree! Ive done up to 4L and works well enough to agitate no whirlpool effect but its moving. And the 2 inch bar nope don't work! Glad im not the only one.

 

[Beer-lord]

I have a 1, 2 and 5 liter flask and should have started with the 5L. I also got mine last year from MoreBeer.
I make 4 liter starters and keep half for future brews. Saves time and money.

 

[Nagorg]

I use a 5L flask also and found it for ~$50. Its a "Karter Scientific" and works great. Even so, I've been wondering what to do for even larger starter requirements for really big beers as well as large lager batches. I've seen stirplate demos of using 5G carboys so I may look at that path. Otherwise I'll likely get another 5L and stirplate.

 

[moreb33rplz]

If you buy a plastic bucket, which is what I use for larger starters, just buy a lid for it as well. You have to make a couple holes, but the price is almost impossible to beat.

I have reused the 5L ice cream buckets. The lids are flexible enough to leave one section covered but not sealed completely.

This was the two starters for my hefe batches last summer. You can see that the lid edge facing the front is not quite sealed:
View attachment 329761

Here are the two gallon buckets I use - got them at Walmart. you can see where I put grommets in the lids for airlocks:
View attachment 329762

Good Luck
Cody

Ha holy crap that is a serious stir plate. Nice.