Lalvin D47 over 20°C?

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Flumpy

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I'm in a part of the world where indoor temps are almost always over the recommended 15-20°C for D47. They're often 20-27°C (70-80°F). However, I see that D47 is highly recommended for average meads and I would like to try it on my next batch if I could. Is this 20°C a hard cutoff or can it be fudged up into the mid-20s? Has anyone tried?

Thanks very much. :mug:
 

fatbloke

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Medsen Fey is the man with experience of this issue. He's in Florida, so I'm sure you can guess what the average temp is like there.

I believe it to be a strong "No" recommend.

K1-V1116 is a good yeast for meads and its got a very wide temp tolerance. Of course there's also the "school of thought" that says about keeping the ferment temps down as it seems less likely that any off flavours will/can develop.
 

AsianMead

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I was finished the first fermentation with D47 2 months ago.
Actually, the temp in my country will never get below than 20 unless the short period in the early morning but that's not enough for D47.
So, I was put 5 litre jug in the soft plastic box and filled the water into the box then drilled box cap to make a fit hole for the airlock. I kept fill the ice cube 2 times every day and monitor the temp. It pretty work the temp never get over 21°C.
Now it's in the secondary but I didn't fill the ice cube anymore just leave it in the water in the box because there is no fermentation activity. Still wonder that will be OK or not.
 

MedsenFey

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If you can keep it to 22C or below, you'll be OK. If you are making a big berry melomel or something with a lot of flavors to cover the fusels you might be OK above that temp. If you are trying to make traditional mead with D47 above that level, you'll be making paint thinner that will take forever to age out (if it ever does). Montrachet and Uvaferm 43 are a couple of others to avoid at higher temps.

If the humidity isn't high where you are, a swamp cooler works and can keep it as much as 5 degrees cooler. A spare fridge is essential where I live where the humidity is high.

If you must ferment above 22 C, I'd suggest K1V or D21. Some folks have success with 71B, but I haven't tested it enough.

Medsen
 
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Flumpy

Flumpy

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I might have a place near an exterior wall where it's usually 18-20 but gets up to 21-22 in the afternoon. I may try there. What's the worst that could hapen? ;)
 

Insomniac

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I would try a 1 gallon test batch by that back wall of yours while looking out for a second hand fridge to use for any future batches.

My first batches were with D47 with a room temp of about 22 (so fermented even higher) and it was really rather like paint thinner for a while, though a bit of age and some back sweetening made a world of a difference to it. I then found a fridge going for free that can fit two 5 Litre carboys in which has allowed me to keep D47 batches at a nice 17 c or so.

I never tried the swamp cooler method but might be worth a shot if you can.
 

Tomico

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You could also try wrapping the carboy in a wet towel for evaporative cooling. It could be tedious and a bit unreliable but it could help.
I have read that D47 is a bit temperamental in that the Ph has to be a little higher, there should be enough nutrient and the temperature should be below the said range.
One book I read talked about Tokay yeast having a very high temperature tolerance. The closest comparison was Lalvin EC-1118, 7-35 degrees C or 39 to 95 degrees F. It has an 18% alcohol tolerance. But, it seems a lot of the other yeasts do have higher temperature tolerances than the D47.
What are the attributes you are looking for? Are you looking for mouth feel, aromatics, or lower alcohol?
Good luck.

Tomico
 

MedsenFey

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D47 is not real sensitive to pH. It is actually pretty good about fermenting to completion even with a pH of less than 3.0 (but it needs enough nitrogen and potassium to do it). Although it isn't considered a nutrient hog, it does perform better if you provide proper nutrients, and while that might be said of many yeast, it applies even more to D47

The book you were reading was probably the old Acton and Duncan's Making Mead book. I saw that reference and it inspired me to include Tokay in some high temperature testing. When fermented in the mid 80s F, it tasted poorly and was slow to clear. In the book they report the individual who claimed it worked well said you needed it at 95 F. I plan to test in at 90+ F, perhaps this summer if I have the time.

I can tell you that EC-1118 is a poor choice for high temperature fermentation. Yes, the yeast can survive and ferment with no problem, but the odor and tastes that are produced are simply bad.
 

Tomico

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Thanks MedsenFey, I have very little working knowledge of yeasts mostly using champagne yeast but have recently been looking at yeasts as a way of improving, guiding and predicting flavors. Unfortunately, most of the information so far is limited and mostly centered on wine brewing. Since I have a tendency to play with odd combinations and in unusual situations it is nice to read about what may work best in a giving situation. I hope the original writer is able to work out the best situation for him / herself.
 
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