Lagering steps?

[scottm1]

Hi this is my first attempt at a lager. I have a fermentation chamber that is controlled by a stc1000 that is set up to heat or cool as necessary. My question is what are the steps. I'm a little confused on temp time ect. Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[HausBrauerei_Harvey]

I'll pass along some emailed advice from my buddy, a good and long-time brewer. My first lager (done last weekend) is sitting at 10C right now.
I got my wort to about 55 using a two-step IC cooling method, but it took like an hour and really sucked. By the time I let the trub settle and racked it was back up to 60, an it took my fridge like 5 hours to get it to 53, when I pitched.

Make sure you pitch enough yeast, I had 500 billion cells from a two-step starter for my 1.055 Oktoberfest.

My buddies helpful info below:

What is your typical procedure/ferm schedule for lagers?"

"Chill the wort to about 50F, or as close as you can. Oxygenate and pitch. Hold temp until fermentation starts to slow (a bubble every ~3 sec), then raise to 60-65 for a week. (To be honest, I would probably do a intermediate step @ 55F in between as well. So, maybe 50 for 4-5 days, then ratchet it up to 55 over another 4-5 days, and finally up to 60-65 at the end. But that's just b/c I like to tinker with my temps and I like to imagine my yeast will like me more if I reward them with a little temp bump. I really don't think that middle-bump is at all necessary.)

I've only done 3 lagers in my lifetime, and all of those were on my friend's system in which the wort runs out of the kettle through a counterflow chiller on the way to the fermenter. So I am able to get the wort really close to 50 degrees right into the fermenter. That may not be possible with just an immersion chiller, and certainly not in warmer weather.

Some people say it's okay to pitch lager yeast into warm wort (~60-65F) and then gradually bring it down to fermentation temps (48-52) over the next 6-8 hours, the theory being that the yeast reproduce nice and quickly during the lag phase @ 65F (which is a good thing), but by the time the yeast start actual fermentation and producing esters and flavor compounds, the beer is at the appropriate temp (50F) and so there are no ill-effects flavor-wise. Theoretically that all sounds good, but I think it still makes a small difference in the flavor when you shift the temp on the yeast that much.

So, if I were limited with how cold I could chill my wort in the kettle, I would get it as cold as I can with the immersion chiller, rack to the fermenter, be patient and let the fermentation chamber take my wort down to 55. (I can imagine it taking the rest of the day, or even longer, depending on how far it has to drop.) Then I'd pitch and let it drop on down the rest of the way to fermentation temps (48-52). MY theory being a compromise between the impatient "pitch now" camp and the impractically patient "wait forever if you have to" camp. The only downside to waiting a long time to reach pitching temps is risk of infection. Nothing to joke about for sure... but if you were careful beforehand not to let anything fly into your kettle while the wort is cooling, and if your siphon and fermenter are clean and sanitized, it's also nothing to worry about.

Make sure you pitch more yeast and give 'er a longer dose of O2 than you normally would for an ale. Maybe 60-70 seconds' worth."

 

[Darwin18]

Fermenting a lager isn't really all that different from fermenting an ale. You're just fermenting at a lower temperature, that's all.

For my lagers, after brewing, I'll place the carboy into the fermentation and set the controller to 5 - 6 degrees F from where I want to ferment at. I'll come back in a few hours after it has cooled to this lower temperature, pitch my yeast starter, and then raise the temperature to my target fermentation temp. This process minimizes diacetyl production. If you're really worried about it then I'd wait until fermentation is dying down, almost completely down, and then raise your temp controller to the mid 60's and let it sit for a few days before you bottle or transfer to kegs.

 

[CadillacAndy]

Which yeast strain are you planning on using? I prefer wlp833 for all of my lagers. I put the carboy in the fridge and get it down to around 46F, then oxygenate and pitch the yeast. You can figure out the amount you need by using a yeast calculator like Mr. Malty. I allow it to warm up to 48F naturally and hold it there until fermentation visibly slows. Then I allow the temp to increase 10-15 degrees to keep the yeast active as things finish up.

Once things are totally done I cold crash for a couple days until things are clear then rack to a secondary carboy or keg - depending on what I have available. I let it sit at around 35F for about 4-6 weeks, depending on the stating gravity. Sometimes longer for big bocks.

So to kind of recap what I do:

Chill to 46F and pitch
Rise to 48F for most of primary
Diacetyl rest/cleanup when ferm slows at 60F
Cold crash then rack to lager vessel
Lager at 35F for several weeks

 

[scottm1]

I'll be pitching wyeast 2124 bohiemium lager using 2 pouches.

 

[scottm1]

The sg figures out to be 1,070. And fg @1,010. It's a amer bock.

 

[scottm1]

Amber bock .oops...

 

[CadillacAndy]

I built a couple of quick tools that help you determine how long to "optimally" let beer lager. The first just tells you how long and when it will be ready http://onlinebeerscores.com/tools/lager-time.php. The second goes to opposite direction. You tell it when you want it ready and it tells you when you need to brew it by - http://onlinebeerscores.com/tools/lager-time-reverse.php.

Also here's the link to the Mr. Malty yeast calculator - http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html. Two packs of yeast of yeast is okay if you have a HUGE starter. Or you could brew a smaller lager, like a pils of some sort in the 1.048 range and use that yeast from that for the bigger lager.

 

[scottm1]

I've never harvested or started a yeast before. But I can learn! So what do I need to get that show on the road as well?

 

[scottm1]

I've always used a smack pack....

 

[CadillacAndy]

Did you want to make a starter or use the yeast from a lower gravity batch?

 

[Darwin18]

I've always used a smack pack....

A smack pack is not a starter and while a starter isn't always "necessary" for ales, it is critical to pitch a large volume of active yeast for a lager.

 

[scottm1]

I would like to make a starter and do this right. So how do you do that. And what do I need for equipment as well?

 

[CadillacAndy]

I would like to make a starter and do this right. So how do you do that. And what do I need for equipment as well?

To do it really right you'll need a stir plate and a 3 liter erlenmeyer flask with a stir bar. You'll need to get some dry malt extract and use the Mr. Malty yeast calculator to determine the number of yeast packs and size of the starter needed. Then you'll mix up that volume of 1.040 wort and boil it in the flask, cool it down, pitch your yeast and put it on the stir plate with a loose covering of foil for a day or two. Then you'll chill the starter and decant the liquid, leaving just the thick slurry on the bottom. This is what will get pitched in to your beer.

 

[scottm1]

I'm all over this will get the items mentioned and get started. How do I harvest from another batch? Say a pilsner? Just to get the ball rolling with the yeast.

 

[CadillacAndy]

Making a starter is usually advisable for any beer, even a lower gravity pilsner. When I'm planning on reusing yeast I usually go from my kettle to a carboy and allow that to settle out for 30 mins then rack off the hot break and trub. This helps keep the yeast cleaner for reuse.

Ferment the beer like you normally would, then rack the finished beer off the yeast cake. I usually transfer the yeast to sanitized mason jars or Nalgene bottles. Then you can use mr malty again to determine how much slurry to pitch in the next batch.

 

[scottm1]

Very cool thank you sir for your insight on all of this. As you can tell newbee here. Thanks again. Cheers...

 

[scottm1]

Put mr malty on the iPad . And so in a nut shell I get most of it the use date is the day I'm going to pitch the starter?

 

[scottm1]

Oh and viability % where do I find that?

 

[CadillacAndy]

If you're making a starter, you're concerned with the production. Entering that number in to the yeast calculator will automatically determine the % viability.

If you're going to be reusing a yeast cake, select the "pitching from slurry" option and enter the "harvest date", which will determine your % viability.

 

[idylldon]

I just brewed a Bohemian Pils and here are my fermentation steps:

I used WL802, which ferments really clean between 50F - 55F and produces very little diacetyl.

I fermented at 53 and held it within a 1-degree window.

7/15: OG -- 1.050
7/21: 1.030
7/26: 1.020
7/27: Let temperature rise on its own to 60F for diacetal rest, though a tasting at the time revealed no diacetyl.
7/30: FG -- 1.010. Cold crashed the primary down to 32F to drop yeast and plan to move it to secondaries for lagering this weekend. It will be in the secondaries for a minimum of 5 weeks and then I'll keg/carbonate it.

At this point, the beer tastes great and will not doubt be a killer pils starting in mid September.

BTW, a lot of this depends on the yeast strain you use and its penchant for producing diacetyl, but I've always found it wise to do a diacetyl rest no matter which yeast I've used. It just gives the yeast a chance to clean up a bit so the beer can finish as cleanly as possible.

Cheers,
--
Don

 

[catdaddy66]

Subscribed! Going to do my first ever lager (not counting California Common ales/lagers) in a couple of brews. Want to do it right!


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Roundhouse]

I typically do things my own unique way and sometimes it's way out of line from tradition. It's just been an evolution over more than a decade. That's what makes the hobby fun. I've had success with both starters and straight from the vial/pack this way but would probably favor a higher pitch rate.

I will cool my wort down as cool as I can and will then place the fermenter in the fridge at the desired fermentation temp and let it naturally fall. I won't pitch the yeast until the next morning if I'm brewing in the afternoon/evening. I've never had an infection from this. I will leave the yeast pack or starter at this temp for several days before brew day to allow it to get used to being there. If I'm making a starter I'll let it ferment at this temp as well. When I pitch it into the wort, it's already at the same temperature. I used to hover in the 40-42 degree range on lagers but now stay around 48. It does take a while to take off this way at this temperature but you get far fewer unwanted fermentation byproducts this way as opposed to starting at a higher temp and then lowering. I'll let primary ride until it's within about 10% of hitting fg. Sometimes this can take 3-4 weeks. It depends on the yeast. Then I'll transfer it to a keg and seal it up to let it finish by naturally carbonating. I'll adjust the level later if necessary. After about a week sealed in the keg I'll crash it down to about 34-35 and let it sit for about 2 weeks. If I'm not filtering I'll just blow the sediment off in the first pint or so.

This technique works pretty well for me. I don't rack off of the yeast at any other time and I rarely need to do a diacetyl rest. Just occasionally. I check for it's presence but usually I don't have a problem.

 

[ajdelange]

The traditional method (which makes the best beer but takes longer) involves cooling the wort to around 42°F, pitching (with good oxygenation) about 1 million cells per cc per °P and allowing the temperature to rise to about 48 °F. Hold at 48 °F as the fermentation progresses until the AE is within a degree or 2 of terminal (as determined by a forced test). At this point start to lower the temperature by a couple of °F per day until as close to freezing as possible and hold there for a couple of weeks. At the end of a couple of weeks transfer with lots (but not too much) yeast into the lagering vessel(s) and hold near freezing for a couple of months. The beer will be ready to drink within a couple of weeks of going into the lagering vessels (as soon as it drops clear) and one of the most interesting things about brewing lager beer is noting how its flavors change over the course of the three months and well beyond. If kept on the yeast it should have a 'shelf' life of more than a year so I always keep it on the yeast (the 'lagering vessels' are Sanke kegs). If you need beer for a party or have to move it you can rack off what you need into another Sanke or Corny or whatever you like.

Note that no diacetyl rest is used in the traditional method. The diacetyl rest is a product of the 'get it out the door quick' school of modern brewing. The traditional method doesn't get it out the door quick but as I noted above makes better beer.

 

[Roundhouse]

It's nice to see that method detailed out. Apparently my own technique isn't too far off from it.

 

[wobdee]

I'm kinda new to lagers so enjoy threads like this. It gives me some other methods to try.

I have pretty cold well water so I'm able to cool my wort down to 55, pitch yeast, set fermenter to 50 and let it go for 7-8 days, raise temp to 60 for D rest for a couple more days, cold crash for 3 days then rack into kegs and lager for 4-6 weeks.

Another method I tried a couple times is start out at 50 and raise 1 degree every day for 10 days, cold crash for a couple more the transfer into kegs and lager. I was told a local brew pub does it this way and their lagers are fantastic.

Both methods turned out great beers for me but I think I may try what some others are doing and start out a little lower around 46-48 and let it come up on its own to 50 instead of pitching at 55.