Lagering and sulfur

[Aloha_Brew]

Hello all.

I did my first lager with a pilsner about a month ago, of which it was transferred to a corny keg after 10 days. After this I dropped temps from 55 to 40 the first 10 days and tasted a definite sulfur flavor and aroma. I moved it to my other chest freezer to sit there for 3 days at 68 degrees and then moved it back to the other chest at 50 degrees for the last week. Today I noticed a subdued sulfur taste but it was definitely still there.
I used the WLP 800 yeast with 2 vials, with fermentation completing after 7 days. I understand I should wait a bit more before calling it could, but I was just wondering how some others have experienced this same kind of transition. Is sulfur a usual thing associated with the taste using this yeast? I used a new glass 6.5 gallon carboy for a 5 gallon batch with a 2-piece airlock and kept both the keg and the carboy enclosed in the chest while fermenting.

 

[DrawTap88]

Way too much up and down the temperature. Another week or two at a warmer temp will probably solve your problem, since a lot of the sulfer smelling compounds are blown off with CO2. If that doesn't work, you could, but I don't recommend, force carbonating it and releaseing the pressure every day until it doesn't have those sulfer esters anymore. I don't recommend it because it will reduce the hop profile a bit.

 

[Aloha_Brew]

How warm of a temp are you talking? Also, since I'm force catbonating in either case, how would it lessen the hop profile further by venting more?

 

[osagedr]

This is part of the reason you should lager the beer for extended periods.

 

[Aloha_Brew]

So, most lager yeasts will cause this? I suppose what I'm really trying to understand is that this a common occurrence and not due to something I did completely wrong. As I said before, this is my first lager attempt and before I start my next one I want to be completely sure that there isn't something that I'm used to doing with ales that is going to impart some bad effect (aside from tasting it to early). Thanks all for providing some feedback. I wouldn't have asked the question if it was a common problem I could do a quick internet search on. I only noticed people talking about the smell and not specifically the taste.

 

[DrawTap88]

How warm of a temp are you talking? Also, since I'm force catbonating in either case, how would it lessen the hop profile further by venting more?

65-70 degrees.

Since you're adding CO2 by force carbonating, and then releasing the pressure, the CO2 that is coming out of solution is going to carry with it some of the good and bad flavors with it.

 

[osagedr]

Wow my fermenting doppelbock started to throw sulphur yesterday. S-189. Don't think I've ever smelled it that strong before!

Not concerned in the least, though...it will go away with time.

 

[Brulosopher]

This is one of the reasons lagers are intended to, well, lager (cold stored for a bit of time). It's not just "lager" yeast, necessarily. The hybrid yeasts (Kolsch, Cal Common, etc) and even some ale yeasts produce fart smell too

 

[g-star]

Lager yeasts produce sulfur, but excessive sulfur (to the point that you can clearly taste it) is a sign of stressed yeast.

2 vials of yeast is not nearly enough for standard gravity lagers, especially if they were not super fresh. A big starter and pitching the correct amount of yeast would help avoid this.

Done right, most lagers will give off a sulfurous aroma when fermenting, but it will be barely to undetectable in the finished product. Lagering helps.

 

[Aloha_Brew]

Lager yeasts produce sulfur, but excessive sulfur (to the point that you can clearly taste it) is a sign of stressed yeast.

2 vials of yeast is not nearly enough for standard gravity lagers, especially if they were not super fresh. A big starter and pitching the correct amount of yeast would help avoid this.

Done right, most lagers will give off a sulfurous aroma when fermenting, but it will be barely to undetectable in the finished product. Lagering helps.

Ah. Now that does make some sense. I did have to bump up the temps a bit during the initial fermentation after it sat for about a week with no activity. What's the standard amount of vials or viable starter that is recommended for the average lager? I appreciate the comments all, and the added advice G-Star, as I had mentioned earlier that I'm trying to put theory into practice with my attempts to lager. I had mentioned the taste of the beer but most everyone talked about the smell (to include the search results I mentioned earlier) but the idea that the yeast is stressed is something I need to address.

On a side note, I just brewed a schwartzbier a few days ago and the fermentation in this batch is mirroring the pilsner, with no activity. Should I just pitch in a couple more vials of yeast to avoid stressing the yeast already present?

 

[Yooper]

Ah. Now that does make some sense. I did have to bump up the temps a bit during the initial fermentation after it sat for about a week with no activity. What's the standard amount of vials or viable starter that is recommended for the average lager? I appreciate the comments all, and the added advice G-Star, as I had mentioned earlier that I'm trying to put theory into practice with my attempts to lager. I had mentioned the taste of the beer but most everyone talked about the smell (to include the search results I mentioned earlier) but the idea that the yeast is stressed is something I need to address.

On a side note, I just brewed a schwartzbier a few days ago and the fermentation in this batch is mirroring the pilsner, with no activity. Should I just pitch in a couple more vials of yeast to avoid stressing the yeast already present?

For most lagers in the 1.060 area, five packages or more are the "correct" amount or a gallon + sized starter. It's a LOT of yeast.

 

[Aloha_Brew]

For most lagers in the 1.060 area, five packages or more are the "correct" amount or a gallon + sized starter. It's a LOT of yeast.

Oh my...gotta rush for more on Tuesday, since my shop is closed on Mondays... Guess I better perfect some starter routines and make it a habit for lagers. Thanks for the useful advice Yooper, and I greatly appreciate all the useful information provided by all. I hope to learn more from all from this forum so that I may share my mistakes ( knowledge) with others.:rockin:

 

[g-star]

If you're going to be a lager brewer, investment in a stir plate and at least a 2L flask is really a must.

Consult yeastcalc.com to determine the proper pitching rate and starter size, based on your projected OG and yeast viability (don't ignore the dates on the tubes/smack packs).

A properly pitched lager will show activity in 12 hours and a krausen by 24hrs, even when pitching and maintaining temps in the mid 40's.. If you're waiting a week to see activity, something is drastically wrong.

 

[osagedr]

If you're going to be a lager brewer, investment in a stir plate and at least a 2L flask is really a must.

I have a 6L for lager starters; the baby 2L is just for ales.

 

[Aloha_Brew]

I have a 6L for lager starters; the baby 2L is just for ales.

Thought I was done buying stuff after my last major upgrade... Ah, well. I should have known better! I'll look into starter setups. Is anyone actively extracting slurry from glass carboys in a reliable way, or is it even viable? Thinking of trying to save money by harvesting the krausen for future lagering efforts. Thanks again guys.

 

[osagedr]

My typical method if I am planning to repitch slurry is to rack the beer out of the primary, pour theh slurry into a sanitized container, measure out the amount I need for the next batch, pitch it into the chilled wort, aerate, and let 'er rip.

 

[jtejedor]

I have a 6L for lager starters; the baby 2L is just for ales.

Word 6L flask for lager starters. Don't know if I would save any yeast from the underpitched batches. But yeah you can harvest yeast no problem as long as your sanitation is good you can just save it in mason jars.

 

[DrawTap88]

Yeast Washing. This is another was of harvesting yeast. Get 100 different brewers that wash yeast and you'll find 100 different ways of washing yeast. Find a way that works for you.