Lager Yeast

[Frank99]

This is my 1st time making a lager, and here is the quick summary:

-Took Wyeast 2308 Munich out of fridge, smacked, and saw that it started to swell within a few hours while I was brewing.

-Pitched the yeast into 1 liter starter @ 48 F (based on Wyeast site yeast temp range = 48-56F).

-Placed yeast on stir plate in chest freezer @ 50 F for 36 hours w/no sign of life.

-I had the wort sitting in the chest freezer at 50 F and decided to pitch the starter in there and cross my fingers. It's now been 24 more hours with no visible activity.

Should I wait a few days and take a gravity reading or bump up the temp a bit ? Did I pitch too cold ?

 

[COLObrewer]

S h o u l d . . . b e . . . . f i n e , . . . . .h a v e . . . . t o . . . . . s l o o o w w w . . . . . d o w n . . . ... . a b o u t . . . . 3 0 0 % . . .. . . w h e n . . . . . f e r m e n t i n g / l a g e r i n g . . . . a . . . . . l a g e r . . . . b e e r.

 

[RiverCityBrewer]

I'm assuming you are talking about a 5 gallon batch but what gravity are you talking about? Did you shoot any O2 into your wort prior to pitching? I make all my starters in the 65-70F range (lager and ale) so I'm not sure if that might be your issue. Chris White from White Labs recommends making starters a bit warmer than normal ale fermentation temps to get the yeast really active and get the best growth. Anyway, I've had more than a 40 hour lag with lager yeasts... if you underpitched it will take it a while to grow before it can actually start fermenting.

 

[Frank99]

Yes, it's a 5 gallon batch and I use an oxygen tank/airstone for aeration. The fact that the Wyeast pack started swelling within, let's say 4 hours, led me to believe I'd start seeing activity similar to my prior ale starters, which typically are at high krausen in the 18-24 hour range.

 

[COLObrewer]

Yes, it's a 5 gallon batch and I use an oxygen tank/airstone for aeration. The fact that the Wyeast pack started swelling within, let's say 4 hours, led me to believe I'd start seeing activity similar to my prior ale starters, which typically are at high krausen in the 18-24 hour range.

One of the differences here is that you put the smackpack in 48F starter, I assume you don't do this for your ale starters, not wrong, just slower.

 

[ghpeel]

Yeah you don't have to worry about temp control when doing a starter. Lager or ale makes no difference. Just let it sit at room temps. If anything, I'd worry about keeping it warm enough during the cold months. You're just growing yeast with the starter, not drinking the liquid, which will taste funky. Just make sure you decant off the liquid when pitching the starter.

My sole experience with lager yeast is that they do need a bigger starter, but should take off fairly fast. Mine was a massive slurry collected from a commercial brewery and had krausen within 8 hours. I've never seen a dry packet of ale yeast take off that fast. Just remember to double or triple your starter size. You could even step it up to a 1 gallon starter right there in the bottom of your carboy if you wanted.

 

[Rundownhouse]

S h o u l d . . . b e . . . . f i n e , . . . . .h a v e . . . . t o . . . . . s l o o o w w w . . . . . d o w n . . . ... . a b o u t . . . . 3 0 0 % . . .. . . w h e n . . . . . f e r m e n t i n g / l a g e r i n g . . . . a . . . . . l a g e r . . . . b e e r.

Perfectly said. OP, if you knew your yeast was viable, which you did, then you'll be fine. Just wait.

 

[passedpawn]

starter = room temp. chill, decant, pitch.

 

[Frank99]

Update:
Screw it.
I gave it a week with no activity (gravity still at 1.060), so I pitched some dry Nottingham and raised the temp to 60 F.

 

[passedpawn]

ouch. no fermentation in a week? I go into emergency mode in 48 hours.

Keep some S-23 or similar dry lager yeast on hand for just-in-case times like this.

 

[jjones17]

Sounds like that yeast was dead. I had something similar happen to me with a smack pack. The beer tasted like rubber at bottling time (dead yeast likely), however I bottled in anyway and it should settle out once it clears.

If it tastes funny don't dump it imo....

 

[COLObrewer]

Update:
Screw it.
I gave it a week with no activity (gravity still at 1.060), so I pitched some dry Nottingham and raised the temp to 60 F.

T o o o o . . . . . . . S l o w w w w . . . .

Sorry. sometimes I guess it don't work, I'm surprised though.

 

[ghpeel]

Sucks man. Well Notty will make a good beer anyway

I think that a swollen lager pack is still WAY too weak to pitch into a lager beer. Lager's need twice the amount of yeast pitched as ales, and a swollen ale pack is just barely enough (or not enough depending on your gravity).

Still, I'd think that the beer would start after a few days. Guess something went wrong with the yeast after the smacking.

 

[Rundownhouse]

On Friday I brewed 11g of O'fest. I kegged a Helles Bock that morning and harvested some of the yeast from that batch. I made a last-second decision to only use the harvested yeast for half of the batch, so while I was chilling, I ran out to the LHBS and got four vials of WL S. German Lager. I chilled to ~48F, got both carboys in the fridge set at 50F, pitched and aerated (wine degasser getting a vortex for 20s clockwise, 20s counter, etc, for about two minutes total).

After 24 hours, the carboy with harvested yeast had a nice krausen going. The other carboy, nothing. After 48 hours, still nothing, so I gave it another shot of aeration. It is now closing in on 72 hours and still nothing, so I took a sample. The sample is super bright, still tastes ok, and is still my original knockout gravity. Sample temp was 53F.

The yeast from white labs was from a couple different lots, so I'd be surprised if it wasn't viable, but still... any ideas?

 

[trigger]

I had a similar experience with my first lager. I did a double brew day about 2.5 weeks ago, a O'fest and a Bock. I made starters for both from Wyeast packs. The O'fest went as planned, and stepped up the 1L twice. The bock, which took 2206, never did go. I gave it 24 hours to swell the pack, which didn't happen, so I threw it in 1L of fresh wort, and 4 days later the wort was still at the OG. SO on brew day I ran out and grabbed 2 vials of WL 820, and once chilled I pitched the unfermented starter and both vials. The O'fest was in krausen within 24 hours, took over 3 days to get anything to even cloud up the Bock, but it eventually went.

Yesterday I took SGs of both. The O'fest is at 1.016 from 1.058 with no diacetyl, no esters, and basically tastest like it's ready to lager. The Bock, though, has been cranking out sulphur like a volcano, tastes like sulfur and a hint of diacetyl, and is at 1.021 from 1.068. I bumped up the temp on both to 60 for a D-rest, and hopefully it'll all work out.

Rundownhouse, I think your beer will most likely ferment, but like mine I think it might not be a perfect lager. I don't really know yet. Hopefully in 8 weeks we'll both have good beers. I'm determined to see this one through and practice patience.

 

[Rundownhouse]

Well I went back to the LHBS and they gave me four new vials of Bock yeast as long as I promised to bring them the empty vials of S. German Lager. I pitched those and aerated. Again. I'll wait a day or two and if still nothing then I guess its time to warm the fermenter up and see what happens.