Lager vs Kveik: The Test

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Miraculix

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My congrats! You'll have an excellent addition to your cellar to savour!
Just yesterday I drank a bottle of my 4 months-aged Rongoteus. A heavenly brew.
Sparging was dream-like. The 30 minute beta glucan rest really did something. Overall the whole brewday went a bit sideways... coudn't really hit the temperature steps with the infusions, beta glucan was 5 degrees too high, 65 step was 3 degrees too high, then temperature fell more the initially thought, so I had to bring it up from 61 again via infusion.... this meant with the remaining water volume I could only get it to 70, but no mash out. However, lautering, as I said, it was beautiful. It ran and ran and ran till it stopped because of no wort left. Volume wise, perfect calculation, I had a full kettle at the end, but with less OG than desired. I am sure, that if my kettel woudn't be 18l big, but 30 or 35, I would be able to sparge properly and then could boil down the wort to get a better efficiancy and higher og with 18 litres at the end of the boil.
 

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65 step was 3 degrees too high, then temperature fell more the initially thought, so I had to bring it up from 61 again via infusion....
I almost never use the 65C step, however often it's recommended in modern recipes (it's actually pretty rare in historical recipes, as far as what I have seen). I find that it results in slightly less efficiency, as at 65C both enzymes have to work near the edge of their respective optimal ranges. I believe the 65 step may be justified when just a single-step mashing is strictly required by a historical recipe (most often, by an English one). When I see it in a modern schedule, I usually replace it with a standard Hochkurz of different lengths, depending of how much fermentability I want.

In my version of Rongoteus, I employed steps of 30' at 45C, then 45' rising from 60 to 65C and another 45' rise from 70 to 74C (I chose gradual rise over single-temp steps because rising is very traditional for brewing Sahti and I think it better converts the Rye). Got 80% extraction and was happy with that.
Glucan rest - yes, it works wonders up to 25% of Rye in the grist! Beyond that, things start getting sticky irregardless.
 

Miraculix

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I bottled it on friday. The beer has an intense Kveik twang and strong rye presence plus roast from the dark rye. It is interesting atm. I did not like it that much when bottling, but this is the type of beer that improves a lot with aging. FG is about 1.013, so I ended up with about 6.5% abv. This is lower than anticipated, but not so low that I would call it a failure. To the contrary, it is actually a big success because I want to do another stronger beer soon, which I now have to make a concept for, to increase my efficiency. I will do a batch sparge, first full volume sparge, then boiling down the liquid while doing a second "mash" with the grist. I will then extract the liquid a second time and add this to my first runnings. Plus I'll be doing biab, my new bag is in the mail. This should bump up the efficiency by 15 to 25%, which would leave me between 70 and 85% I guess.

I am looking forward to having the first one of this kveik brew in a few months!
 

Miraculix

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I almost never use the 65C step, however often it's recommended in modern recipes (it's actually pretty rare in historical recipes, as far as what I have seen). I find that it results in slightly less efficiency, as at 65C both enzymes have to work near the edge of their respective optimal ranges. I believe the 65 step may be justified when just a single-step mashing is strictly required by a historical recipe (most often, by an English one). When I see it in a modern schedule, I usually replace it with a standard Hochkurz of different lengths, depending of how much fermentability I want.

In my version of Rongoteus, I employed steps of 30' at 45C, then 45' rising from 60 to 65C and another 45' rise from 70 to 74C (I chose gradual rise over single-temp steps because rising is very traditional for brewing Sahti and I think it better converts the Rye). Got 80% extraction and was happy with that.
Glucan rest - yes, it works wonders up to 25% of Rye in the grist! Beyond that, things start getting sticky irregardless.

OK, Could not wait any longer, cracked the first bottle.

SURPRISINGLY GOOD

Intersting thing is, I cannot detect any twang at all any more. Also no specific Voss characteristik. Just sweet and strong beer with nice head and good flavour. The rye is not punching you in the face and is all about the malt. It is a really nice beer.

Thanks. I think my father will love this.
 

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Congrats! Glad to hear!
My main takeaway from that series of several unexpectedly good Dark Rye Kveiks was that the Dark Rye muted somehow that intrusive Kveiky twang which I didn't particularly like. It's not just dark malts that overshadow it (my "Kveiky Porters" sans Rye still had the twang), it must be something that Rye adds or rather covers synergetically with the dark malts. Great beers, the Kveik twang is tamed completely, I think the beers would have tasted the same if fermented with a clean Koelsch yeast.
 

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Congrats! Glad to hear!
My main takeaway from that series of several unexpectedly good Dark Rye Kveiks was that the Dark Rye muted somehow that intrusive Kveiky twang which I didn't particularly like. It's not just dark malts that overshadow it (my "Kveiky Porters" sans Rye still had the twang), it must be something that Rye adds or rather covers synergetically with the dark malts. Great beers, the Kveik twang is tamed completely, I think the beers would have tasted the same if fermented with a clean Koelsch yeast.
I can confirm that, kveik twang tamed. That is rather interesting. Does it also happen without darker rye malt? Meaning, with only normal rye?
 

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Yes, with light Rye it still lingers. Not as prominently as with a pure Barley grist, still it does.
Along with my other Rye Kveiks I brewed last summer an amber one with no Dark Rye: Pilsner 65%, Light Rye 15%, Munich & Melano 5% each, Honey 10%, OG 1.060, 7% Alc., 20 IBU. Nice beer, the Kveiky thing is still there but by far not as annoying as it used to be in my earlier Rye-less Amber Kveiks.
I won't rebrew this beer though, while Rongoteus II is already in the brewing list for the next summer. Will add a bit of Fermented Rye to it this time.
 

Miraculix

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Yes, with light Rye it still lingers. Not as prominently as with a pure Barley grist, still it does.
Along with my other Rye Kveiks I brewed last summer an amber one with no Dark Rye: Pilsner 65%, Light Rye 15%, Munich & Melano 5% each, Honey 10%, OG 1.060, 7% Alc., 20 IBU. Nice beer, the Kveiky thing is still there but by far not as annoying as it used to be in my earlier Rye-less Amber Kveiks.
I won't rebrew this beer though, while Rongoteus II is already in the brewing list for the next summer. Will add a bit of Fermented Rye to it this time.
Maybe RyePA with kveik could be a thing then. Maybe Lutra would be a good choice.
 
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JohnSand

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In warm weather I make a Kveik version of my rye pale using Bootleg Oslo. Grist is about 10% rye with some variations in other specialty malts. The recipe originated with C hops, but last time I used Azacca too. Oslo has a slightly fruity flavor that goes well in an APA.
 
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