Heh, thanks mate. We got more tests this morning, and so far he has:You and your family get well soon! Had to google that one.. does not sound like much fun.
Heh, thanks mate. We got more tests this morning, and so far he has:
Parainfluenza 3 virus,
alongside some other bacterial stuff as mentioned. In light of the fact that I'm no better tonight, I'm not going to be tapping these beers tonight. I'll be doing it once I feel better. I'm on a shaken soft drink tonight, just till the tummy is better
Thank you very much for the detailed report on the comparison. I've witnessed the same when trying lutra. I used it in an apa type of recipe and the kveik taste was not such a big problem there. It was so little that I could totally see this yeast as an easy summer replacement for us05 if one doesn't have temperature control. But otherwise, I'd probably prefer a clean ale yeast.Alrighty, we're discharged just this morning. Over the weekend though I felt a bit better and tapped the kegs. Now, notes before I put out my first comments on the beers:
1. Both kegs have now been "lagering" for 4 weeks.
2. Both kegs were fined with the same amount of gelatin from the same pack, using the same method, at the same temperature and everything else the same, around 2 weeks ago.
3. Both kegs have been sitting at 17 PSI for 2 weeks now. Pressure in the two is absolutely identical, as they're connected to a single CO2 tank with a single regulator, just a gas line splitter between the two kegs.
4. I tapped around 250ml from both kegs to get the dregs out first, and after that the clear beer started flowing.
Now, onto the notes. First beer tested was the one fermented with Lutra:
First, clear, almost crystal at this point. The first thing that struck me was the definitive and instantly identifiable Kveik "rotten" aroma on the beer. It shined in the head, and it continued throughout the beer. This specific flavour vented off with time, as it did with other Kveik beers I made as well. It seems to be a characteristic of Kveiks as I've picked it up in Voss, Oslo and now again in Lutra as well. It's something I'm now expecting from Kveik.
Second, it is well carbonated. There are a stream of bubbles rising in the middle of the glass (where the glass is etched to entice bubbles forming inside to make it present better) and they rise fairly quickly. Head is thick and foamy. Lacing on the glass presented OK and head lasted all the way down to the last sip, which took about 30 minutes to get to (I got busy, and it's a big glass).
Next up, the flavour. There's definitely still a fruity aroma and flavour in the beer, albeit toned down after 4 weeks in the keg. It still hides the IBUs in the beer and the beer is not as bitter as I bittered it at. I'm not sure if it's the yeast flavour or the warm fermenting coupled with the aggressive venting of CO2 that pushed the hop flavour and aroma from the beer, but it's very subdued. The earthy, floral and almost spicy notes I hoped for are literally "earthy fruit" at this stage, and that's it.
Conclusion: It's a good beer. Not one of my best, but it's good and still very drinkable. It's got a fairly full mouthfeel and a creamy, almost oily texture to it that's hard to describe, and I'm not sure if it's the correct way to do so. Yeast presence is identifiable immediately and it's not as clean as they'd claim. At all. I would not use Lutra again to make a beer like this, but I think this yeast will do wonders in a NEIPA, for example.
The second beer was the one fermented with Diamond Lager:
First thing I noticed is that the beer is ever so slightly less clear than the Lutra batch. It's still clear, also almost crystal, but it seemed to have a tiny tiny slight haze to it. I'll do a side by side a bit later and take pictures of the two to compare properly, but this I did notice.
Second, it seems to be less carbonated than the Lutra batch. This has me stumped. I can't figure it out. As per my notes above, they should be identically carbonated, but they're not. It's still carbonated, but there are less bubbles, they rise slower and the beer seems to "hold on" to the CO2 in it better than the Lutra beer. Why? I can't tell you. Head was less but it still stuck around to the bottom of the glass, with decent (but fine) lacing. Head is also creamier than the Lutra beer's.
Then, flavour. This was interesting. Same wort, same everything, but the difference in yeast shined here. There seems to be a slight sour note which I expect to age out, but the hops are way more up front. IBUs jump out at you and the beer is fairly bitter (which I aimed for). There's earthy, floral and spicy hops everywhere, although I have to say I miss a bit of sweetness from the malt. I should have upped the dextrin, or used a light crystal malt for some added sweetness here, or mashed a bit higher, but eh, so you learn.
Conclusion: Diamond Lager does what it does. It's clean, it's clear, it's good. I love it and it's becoming a staple yeast of mine. That's about all there's to say about it.
Finally, as a last note, I'll repeat this test a few times in the next few months as the beers continue to improve in the keg, and I'll specifically aim for the flavours pointed out above to see how they react to age. Stay tuned!
PS: I think I should also do a side by side test in a video and post to YouTube. It's interesting to see.
That's shocking. I too have been running side by sides with Lutra and lager yeast. I love the quick turnaround with the Lutra, but I get this musty white grape/wine aroma and flavor that doesn't fade in the keg. It's not super offensive, but not what I want in my true lagers.OK, guys, hear me out.
So I have had a preference for the Diamond Lager batch since I started this test way back, like 7 or 8 weeks ago. I made this clear a few times in this thread and I'm not afraid to admit it.
I am therefore also not afraid to admit that, for this specific recipe and this specific beer at least, I can't decide if I enjoy the Diamond Lager batch or the Kveik Lutra batch more. Yes, the Lutra one isn't as close to what the recipe called for, but the recipe I used used a hop I learned I'm not super fond of (Tettnang). Perhaps that's why, but man, this Lutra beer goes down like crazy. It's just drinkable. VERY drinkable.
I'll see what time makes of it, but I've had a few tests of this now, and had two other guys also give their inputs on blind tests (they don't know which tap is which) and both seem to prefer the Lutra batch. Rotten off fruity flavours and all.
That's shocking. I too have been running side by sides with Lutra and lager yeast. I love the quick turnaround with the Lutra, but I get this musty white grape/wine aroma and flavor that doesn't fade in the keg. It's not super offensive, but not what I want in my true lagers.
The "rotten" Kveik flavour I pointed out is changing, and it's no longer a fresh yeast rot aroma I'm getting from it, but to me it's changing to almost salty and "umami", that's presenting more and more identifiable as the beer in the glass warms up. By the end of the beer I can swear it tastes similar to marmite or vegemite or whatever it's called in various parts of the world - essentially a salty yeast extract. I can't explain it, but it's there, and it's not particularly terrible either.
DM save your $$. It is nasty stuff it you didn't grow up with it. My NZ mom used to eat marmite on toast, but I tried it once and that was it. Think salt lick with yeast paste. YummyI've never had Vegemite or Marmite so I have no means to compare, but I have tasted a couple of Lutra beers where I know the resulting beer smelled and tasted like canned tuna. I actually love tuna... but not in my beer. I wonder if these are related. I guess I should get a jar of a -mite sometime to find out.
By the end of the beer I can swear it tastes similar to marmite or vegemite or whatever it's called in various parts of the world - essentially a salty yeast extract. I can't explain it, but it's there, and it's not particularly terrible either.
I wonder if Men At Work actually enjoy Vegemite… maybe they do, but not INXS?....Men At Work have entered the chat.............
Interesting about the yeast extract flavor. I've yet to ferment with these Kveik yeasts but, to be honest, I hope I don't get that kind of off flavor. Do you think a pressure ferment would remove that or would that cause more harm than help when going for a lager style beer?
It's actually one of these UK things. Don't now if it spread (pun intended) to Australia though.That's what I was wondering. Maybe, because of its high fermentation capability, Lutra doesn't need to be pressure fermented for a lager beer.
Don't know about MaW, or INXS, but I've never had Vegemite. I've wondered about it, but I've never heard anything good about it, so must be one of those Aussie things.
But then again, I'm from the South. The land of fried chicken, sweet tea, and diabetes so what do I know...
Sounds like a bit like autolysis to me? Maybe the yeast starts to digest itself after some time without nutrients?Vegemite is like a salty spread that you put on toast and stuff. It's not bad at all. I have to add this flavour isn't "in your face" like I might make it sound, but it's there, in the back. The fresh fruity notes I had in there from the Kveik seems to be going or gone.
Depends on the cannibalistic tendencies of this strain. Wouldn't surprise me if this strain would start to eat each other after some time without any food. Some leftovers might be what you are tasting.Yeah it does, but it's not enough time for that to happen. Autolysis happens months after the fact, and keep in mind there's very little yeast left in this beer. It's crystal clear.
Yeah it does, but it's not enough time for that to happen. Autolysis happens months after the fact, and keep in mind there's very little yeast left in this beer. It's crystal clear.
I was a bit dismayed when I couldn't get my wort to clear in the kettle. I figured I'd have to use some gelatin or Biofine Clear. I was amazed when I took a sample after 5 days and it was already clear. I then cold-crashed for 3 days and figured, "Yeah, but I bet it'll be hazy at kegging time." Still clear, though.Lutra drops out so fast for me, I transfer clear beer after 7 days in primary. Don't think he's getting autolysis flavors.
Hell , my starters of lutra settle while going from stir plate in kitchen to basement brewery!
Enter your email address to join:
Register today and take advantage of membership benefits.
Enter your email address to join: