Lager taste-please let me know if this is okay

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reinstone

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Hi-I brewed a bohemian pils 10 days ago and pitched the appropriate starter and at the correct temp-48 degrees.

I oxygenated and noted airlock activity in 6 hours. The fermentation has been steady but has recently dropped off to about 1 bubble every 30 seconds in s airlock.

i was a little low on my mash temp so I expect more fermentability but it should be close. OG was 1.045 and gravity now sits just above 1.010. So the OG was a tad low. I used the bohem pils recipe from brewing classic styles.

I recently implemented a sump pump to cool the wort to pitching temps (through the counterflow) and thought this beer would be great as almost everything went right.

the question is I took a gravity sample and tasted it and I have a slight-very slight fruitish aroma and an acidic/tart taste.

is this something normal or is something wrong? I know it is early but this was meant to be the one. I also fermented on most of the hot and cold break-is this the reason?

thanks
 
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reinstone

reinstone

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also the fruity taste was more present when the sample was warm as opposed to cool-thanks
 

StoneHands

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Sounds like you did everything right on the temperature front, I would imagine the lagering phase will clear a lot of this up.

Was this an all-grain batch or extract? If all grain, did you do anything with your water? I think pils/helles is the one style where you need to pay particular attention to your water when brewing all-grain, any off flavors come through too easily.
 

a6ladd

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The fruity flavor is not typical in that style. Lagers are intended to be a very clean, crisp drink with very little ester. They are however meant to be served at that colder temperature so its good that you get only a very slight estery aroma :drunk:. If you give it some more time to lager, 1-2 months it should clean up nicely. Cheers!
 
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reinstone

reinstone

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it was an all grain batch-

the fruit was a smell-not flavor.....maybe not even fruit-maybe a yeast type-who knows.....I tasted it with my nose pinched and that helped.....I am going to write off the fruit-----it cant be there......o2 difussed for 1 minute, large starter, cool pitch and ferment temps-freakin crazy-----I just need to be patient....

also the water was treated for chlorimine and mixed 75% with reverse osmosis.

I guess thats what I get for tasting it after 10 days----I have also read that this could be so2 dissolved still or maybe its the high concentration of star san from the sample as I pull it with a turkey baster..
 

a6ladd

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RDWHAHB. Like you said its still super fresh for a lager, youve just gotta give it time to clean itself up :tank:
 
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reinstone

reinstone

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thanks for the encouragement-im an anxious person.....the brewing is sometimes less than theraputic....cheers
 

osagedr

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Hard to comment on the flavour without knowing what type of yeast you used. What strain was it?

You should have warmed your beer up to room temperature (or at least 60 degrees) once you were within about six points of expected OG. Do it now--it's called a diacetyl rest; you may not need one but you may and it won't hurt anything. Leave it there for at least a few days.

You will have a different beer after lagering and carbonation.
 
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reinstone

reinstone

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urquell lager was the yeast-

I dont believe diacetal is problem- yeast was pitched at 48 and fermented at 48.

I am going to warm it to 55 and let it have a few days then i will transfer to the cornies to lager.
 
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reinstone

reinstone

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yeah i was thinking that i my fermentation chamber 1 carboy is controlled by a digital controller (in thermowell) and one is on its own. I use a deep freezer for this and believe that the one I tasted (not with the thermowell) ferments a few degrees cooler because of its place in the freezer (liquid crystal)-so although the temp is close it has been fermenting cooler and might need a few days.....it is actually still bubbling a bit. I just hope that the flavors really mellow.........I think that the flavor might be to suspended hop matter, yeast and/or dissolved hydrogen sulfide. I will make sure to update this thread.
I know that this topic has been covered alot of times and covered well but I think that one more example on the forum does cover some different avenues-I need to start doing my part more and post some results rather than ask questions...I have noticed that there are a lot of questions asked.....advice given and then no report on the outcome....then no post of thanks or bragging on the final beer......thanks for all the help....and I will post results on this and update my other posts that have been answered and then produced good beer.:mug:
 
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reinstone

reinstone

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i pulled a few more samples of the beer tonight and tasted side by side w pils urquell......they still have me beat but there is a good similarity. I didnt taste what I did earlier. i think that it might have been the starsan i used in the baster I pulled the sample from-maybe it didnt drain or something-or maybe the test jar I drank from was dirty. anyways i tasted the beer still against the urquell and it has similar flavors-but too light of a color. I also did a half and half mix with urquell and mine vs urquell and didnt notice any off flavors or a large difference in the two. Cheers
 

Hex23

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Supposedly starsan is flavorless.

I've made a few german pilsners and helles recently where I thought I did everything right ... large 4 to 5 liter starters, decanted starter, Narziss ferm. scheme, 80% DI, 1-2 month lagering, but still ended up with some noticeable, but not excessive esters. One was really obvious when it warmed and I could taste a noticeable banana. Sometimes the tart flavors are more noticeable when the sample is cloudy (pre-lagering) and often it subsides a little but never totally goes away. Most of my friends can't taste the esters, but I can. One was a Warsteiner clone attempt and side by side you can definitely tell the Warsteiner is cleaner. I'm starting to wonder if it is something to do with the 2206 I've been using. I'm going to try some 34/70 or 2308. I have a Oktoberfest with 34/70 now, but that's not exactly a "delicate" lager.
 
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reinstone

reinstone

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yeah-tons of variables......ive done everything according to the books and internet info I have found..........there is something missing. with lagers i am starting to wonder if its something to do with temps----ive been at 48 the whole time....its possible that ramping up the primary from like 40 to 48 through fermentation may work better......thats what urquell does.....it seems like yeast get used to temp and then dont clean up.....i would like to try pitch at 40 and 2 degrees a day and rest at 50 and see then.....I have done this with an alt and it was smooth as silk. I think that there must be some secret there that few know...there has to be......by the book as we know it produces a good product....what is it that makes them great...that is the question,,,,these guys can have all the automation they want.....something is being missed here. I will post as I progress.
 
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reinstone

reinstone

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also i wonder if there is something to over oxygenation-my question is that if pils urquell has been making this beer for hundreds of years,,,,there is no way o2 could be above 8ppm......i guess its time to go back to the basics and think that its possible the science has caused us to overdo things.....that happens a lot. I am also getting sckeptical of pellet hops and yeast-all these new variables introduced make everything easier but do the beers suffer...ie metabasufate? etc. Like it was said "brewing is as much of an art as a science" might be time to use some common sense for me....talk about information overload.....this is all I can think about.

cheers:tank:

banna nana baahba bannana:ban: banana dad get outaa here!!!!-form my kids show
 
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reinstone

reinstone

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tasted this beer from keg during transfer ,,...there is a noticeable white wine smell-apple how in the hell did that happen-----i have had this in 2 lagers now....any ideas------also-all my other beers taste wonderful since i sampled tonight....again I adequately pitched and fermented at the correct temp-damnit WTF?:confused:
 
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