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Lager has wine like off flavor

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roccobrews

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I brewed an 1.044 OG full boil extract pilsner. Simple recipe. It was about 5# pilsner LME/DME and a couple of Liberty hop additions. Pitched 2 packs of W34/70 dry @ 55F and fermented at 50F temp controlled for two weeks before D rest for 2 days at room temp. Lager @ 34F for 6 weeks. 5oz priming sugar and a sprinkle of dry yeast at bottling. Carb/condition @ ~68F.

I tested one out at the 10 day and had a wine like nose and front taste. Not undrinkable but obviously out of character for the style.

I'm assuming oxidation but I'm not 100% sure. Anyone experience this before? Will it age out? Any input is always welcome. Thanks all.
 
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roccobrews

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I can't be the first homebrewer in the history of beer to experience a wine like off flavor. LOL. Or maybe I am?
 

grathan

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I haven't used s-34/70 but I did use Wyeast 2124. Both companies say "it is the most widely used lager strain in the world" so perhaps the same. I thought it had a unique tartness to it that could resemble wine. It does fade with age, maybe a month.
 

progmac

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to me oxidization in a young bottle carbed beer seems unlikely. i would try to get someone else to describe the smell and flavor without any nudging that it is "wine-like." to me the most likely culprit is that it is a bit of sulfur, which is a flavor i associate with some wines anyways.
 

ABVIBUSRM

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I got wine off flavors with 34/70 before..im pretty sure it was from starting a D rest to early and not allowing it to finish primary..it did not age out even lagered it 2 months in the 30's..but then again im not 100% sure what causes this wine off flavor..i hope someone with more lager experience chimes in..cause im about to brew a vienna and i dont want this to happen again
 

hunter_le five

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Interesting, I just started a beer sunday using 34/70. First time using that strain. Hope I don't run into the same issue, if that's the cause.
 

FarmerTed

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It could be fusel alcohols. Here's an excerpt from a patent on making lagers at elevated temperatures:

It is well known that if the temperature during bottom-fermentation is increased, the fermentation can be accelerated and the fermentation time substantially shortened. However, it is also known that the beer so obtained has an undesirable winey flavor which is not typical of a lager-type beer (3-5).

Brewing science literature has documented that this winey off-flavor in high-temperature lager fermentations is related to increased amounts of beer volatile compounds, variously known as fusel (or "higher") alcohols and esters (6-15).
 
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roccobrews

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I thought maybe fusels as well but I was well within the yeast optimum specs during fermintation. All temp controlled, no spikes, no temp swings ect.

Very strange. I think Im going taste another soon.
 

ABVIBUSRM

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I thought maybe fusels as well but I was well within the yeast optimum specs during fermintation. All temp controlled, no spikes, no temp swings ect.

Very strange. I think Im going taste another soon.
yeah i was also in the ideal temp range..indeed very strange....i have been pitching very cold around 45 and fermenting @48 and i have not had this problem since.. when i got the "wine" i pitched @ 50-52 and fermented @ 48..but i still gotta know 100% what causes that wine off flavor..IDK about the fusels..how? if everything is temp controlled..im leaning towards contamination is the culprit
 
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roccobrews

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A full month bottle carb/conditioning and at least a week in the fridge and I'm sorry to report the winey off flavor persists. Oh well. Its still good. I guess I'll stop wining about it.
 

ABVIBUSRM

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A full month bottle carb/conditioning and at least a week in the fridge and I'm sorry to report the winey off flavor persists. Oh well. Its still good. I guess I'll stop wining about it.
yup mine did not go away either..hey at least its still drinkable..i gave mine to the sewer rats
 

sky4meplease

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I am far from an expert on lagers but I have read to start a d rest when the beer has attenuated to 70% of target FG.
From my experience with lagers that would be roughly 4-5 days into fermentation. You mentioned starting your rest two weeks in.
Don't know if this would have caused you to be all winey or not but it caught my eye.
 
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