L brevis starter

[WhamFish]

I started a pack of Wyeast L.brevis in a 1L starter 4 days ago holding at 110F. In anticipation of that starter working I brewed 5 gal 2 days ago.

The starter shows no real sign of sourness, I interprate this as a problem. Is 4 days long enough to decide that the L brevis was not viable?

If so what should I do? I'm considering yogurt into the starter, or sauerkraut from the organic store. How long do I have on this 5gal wort before it's ruin, assuming I have good sanitation?

Any other thoughts on Lacto sources?

 

[ColoHox]

How about cloudiness in the wort? As a heterofermenter, the growth environment will really have an impact on the flavor profile.

Can you take the gravity also? 4 days is certainly long enough for a Lacto starter.

If you decide to source bugs elsewhere, yogurt is a reasonable choice. Don't use sauerkraut.
You could do a quick sour mash if you have left-over grain, or toss some grain into your starter.

 

[WhamFish]

Thanks, the wort is very clear. I'm feeling pretty sure that L brevis pack was not viable. I dropped a spoon full of yogurt into the 1L starter, I'll see what that does. Maybe I should make a second starter from grain. How long do grain based starters take to get going?

 

[youreanimpulse]

If I understand correctly that you have 2 day old wort just hanging out, I recommend just putting the lacto (yogurt or otherwise) directly in that wort. The starter is not more important than letting your wort go bad. I just soured 7.5 gal of wort in a week with 1/4 cup of whey strained from yogurt I had on hand (Greek Gods). Worked great, no starter. I'm not saying your starter wasn't a good idea, but only before brewing.

 

[ColoHox]

If I understand correctly that you have 2 day old wort just hanging out, I recommend just putting the lacto (yogurt or otherwise) directly in that wort. The starter is not more important than letting your wort go bad. I just soured 7.5 gal of wort in a week with 1/4 cup of whey strained from yogurt I had on hand (Greek Gods). Worked great, no starter. I'm not saying your starter wasn't a good idea, but only before brewing.

+1. Good advice. I missed the part about the wort sitting out. Pitch those bugs and warm it up.

 

[WhamFish]

I did pitch the L. brevis into the wort. Left part of the starter to continue to monitor so that I did not have to sample from the main wort.

But under the theory that the L brevis is bad yes it is sitting with nothing going on.

So in general, the Greek yogurt will work so I should just put the starter I made in the main wort now.
What is it that I'm most worried about? Oxygenation of that wort or that something else is taking it over?
Yogurt starter will go in after football game, how long at 95 will it take to sour? Just want to know when I should sample and report back.

 

[youreanimpulse]

You are worried about something else taking hold. You also don't want oxygen for the same reason. If you have CO2 I'd try to purge the surface when you pitch the yogurt starter. No idea how long it will take, but it's self limiting based on ph, as the Lacto stops replicating at like 3.4 ph (memory, so don't quote me). Mine went for a week and was 3.0. Maybe check after a couple days?

 

[WhamFish]

You are worried about something else taking hold. You also don't want oxygen for the same reason. If you have CO2 I'd try to purge the surface when you pitch the yogurt starter. No idea how long it will take, but it's self limiting based on ph, as the Lacto stops replicating at like 3.4 ph (memory, so don't quote me). Mine went for a week and was 3.0. Maybe check after a couple days?

Yours was also yogurt derived lacto or a pack from white labs or wyeast?

 

[Sleepyemt]

I started a pack of Wyeast L.brevis in a 1L starter 4 days ago holding at 110F. In anticipation of that starter working I brewed 5 gal 2 days ago.



The starter shows no real sign of sourness, I interprate this as a problem. Is 4 days long enough to decide that the L brevis was not viable?



If so what should I do? I'm considering yogurt into the starter, or sauerkraut from the organic store. How long do I have on this 5gal wort before it's ruin, assuming I have good sanitation?



Any other thoughts on Lacto sources?

Was your starter on a stir plate?

 

[WhamFish]

Yes it was on a stir plate but I had an airlock and low head space to limit O2.

 

[WhamFish]

I think in light of this experience I'm going to attempt a souring experiment with a couple brands of yogurt, kifer and probiotics that are readily available and record pH of the wort as souring occurs.

I'm kind of frustrated with paying $16 for L brevis and striking out, there must be an easier source of pure Lacto. Yes, I know I can get it from grain but I don't want to boil after souring.

 

[youreanimpulse]

Yours was also yogurt derived lacto or a pack from white labs or wyeast?

Yogurt, Greek Gods brand. Strained out and pitched 1/4 cup of whey. You could make a starter. But I make yogurt the same way, and with a tablespoon in a gallon it's yogurt in the morning. So I wasn't worried. Highly recommended!

 

[WhamFish]

Cool, well I've got everything going now and will be able to test everything by Tuesday. I'll report back.

 

[Sleepyemt]

I think in light of this experience I'm going to attempt a souring experiment with a couple brands of yogurt, kifer and probiotics that are readily available and record pH of the wort as souring occurs.

I'm kind of frustrated with paying $16 for L brevis and striking out, there must be an easier source of pure Lacto. Yes, I know I can get it from grain but I don't want to boil after souring.

I have some dregs built up from Cascade Brewery... Where are you?

 

[WhamFish]

I have some dregs built up from Cascade Brewery... Where are you?

I'm in central PA, I'd be happy to receive them if your willing to send.

 

[WhamFish]

In light of this I will indeed conduct a souring experiment with Lacto sourced from the local grocery store. I'll start a new thread documenting the experiment.

I'll also report back on my current wort. I've several concerns about it, it has sat for 48 hrs with nothing in it at 110F. Now I dropped a greek yogurt starter that only went 12ish hours as well as a 500ml dose of mixed bugs (Lacto, Pedio, Brett). While my aim was to sour first then dump that mix I figure at this point its time to just go for a full ferment. I'll correct my future attempts.

 

[CorporateHippie]

I have a lacto brevis starter in 1ltr apple juice at 95' F. It has been in there for 4 days now and I just tastes it. I also taste no sourness at all wyeast 5335 I believe is the number.... What gives???
I have a Berliner I was going to do this week. I will have to just pitch grains as I was planning to pre-sour for a few days before the boil anyway...so should I pitch any ol' grain or acidulated malt? Does it matter?

 

[505-Brewer]

My smack pack in half DME half apple juice took ~ 1 week to show good activity. Tasted lightly tart. Had good krausen with CO2 release. Didn't take pH before or after Will do so in the future.

 

[WhamFish]

I have a lacto brevis starter in 1ltr apple juice at 95' F. It has been in there for 4 days now and I just tastes it. I also taste no sourness at all wyeast 5335 I believe is the number.... What gives???
I have a Berliner I was going to do this week. I will have to just pitch grains as I was planning to pre-sour for a few days before the boil anyway...so should I pitch any ol' grain or acidulated malt? Does it matter?

If your doing the sour wort method any grains should do. If your able to get the ph down to 4.5 prior to souring that would be beneficial.

 

[WhamFish]

My smack pack in half DME half apple juice took ~ 1 week to show good activity. Tasted lightly tart. Had good krausen with CO2 release. Didn't take pH before or after Will do so in the future.

Hmm, maybe I should have planned longer for L brevis activity. I'll try again along side my probiotic experiment.

 

[WhamFish]

Update on my original wort: it is fermenting away like crazy. Hard to say if the Lacto got a good foothold or if this is just a result of the mixed bugs I tossed in but it is fizzing rapidly with a blow off tube attached. No sign of krausen building, just clean fizzy carbonation. Gravity has dropped 3 points.

 

[jnacey]

I had the Wyeast Lacto in a batch at around 90F and I was thoroughly underwhelmed. Almost no activity. I ended up pitching a Wyeast Oud Bruin blend, which also supposedly has their brevis in it, and it picked up right away, threw off some nice, soft acidity and dropped pH down to around 3.4.