Knox Gelatin and Infections

[VikingBrewer]

So I’m brewing a Canadian Blond from a fresh Cooper’s extract kit. I thought I’d try the Knox gelatin, for the first time, in secondary to aid in clarification. It’s been three days since transferring to secondary and I was going to bottle today but noticed the surface looked odd. I keep my equipment extremely clean with Oxyclean and sanitized with San Star. With all the times I’ve done secondary, I’ve never had an issue with infection. I’ve actually never had an infection issue my entire years brewing for that matter.

So my questions are for the following photo is;

1) Could this be an infection?
(Photo made it look much whiter than it actually looks. Other little dots are bubble clusters.)

2) Could I save this batch if it is the start of an infection?
(Bottle but stop with an inch from the top?)
(Skim the top prior to bottling? Other methods?)

(much whiter in photo than it actually looks.)

This is how I transfer.

 

[marc1]

How did you add the gelatin?

Did you cold crash with the gelatin?

 

[VikingBrewer]

How did you add the gelatin?

Did you cold crash with the gelatin?

I used these directions;

1pk Knox gelatin to 1/4 cup water. Bring to 71C (160F) (DO NOT BOIL). Add to secondary. Rack beer from primary to secondary on top of gelatin. 2-5 days bottle.

 

[marc1]

OK it's good that you warmed it up in solution. I've never added it to the bottom of a vessel and racked on top of it. It could just be gelatin that solidified while in your fermenter, before the beer got put in.

One thing is that it seems to work best when the beer is cold. When I've added gelatin, it's been to the keg after chilling.

In the future if you want to use gelatin, I would suggest chilling your primary and then adding the gelatin solution to that, and then bottling several days later.

Heating the gelatin water to 160 should pasteurize enough for beer.

Does your beer taste sour/off? If there is an infection there isn't much you can do, but it might taste OK. It would definitely make it less safe to bottle right away (bugs can eat more sugars than yeast, so you could end up with bottle bombs).

 

[VikingBrewer]

OK it's good that you warmed it up in solution. I've never added it to the bottom of a vessel and racked on top of it. It could just be gelatin that solidified while in your fermenter, before the beer got put in.

One thing is that it seems to work best when the beer is cold. When I've added gelatin, it's been to the keg after chilling.

In the future if you want to use gelatin, I would suggest chilling your primary and then adding the gelatin solution to that, and then bottling several days later.

Heating the gelatin water to 160 should pasteurize enough for beer.

Does your beer taste sour/off? If there is an infection there isn't much you can do, but it might taste OK. It would definitely make it less safe to bottle right away (bugs can eat more sugars than yeast, so you could end up with bottle bombs).

I just took a taste and no sour taste. Actually tastes pretty good. Maybe stop bottling when I have in inch or two left just to be safe? Usually I’m greedy and I tip the fermenter to get the last few drops.

 

[marc1]

I just took a taste and no sour taste. Actually tastes pretty good. Maybe stop bottling when I have in inch or two left just to be safe? Usually I’m greedy and I tip the fermenter to get the last few drops.

If it's infected it's going to be throughout, get all the goodness you can!

To be safe maybe keep the bottles in a cardboard box or something so if it does go boom it won't hurt anyone.

 

[VikingBrewer]

If it's infected it's going to be throughout, get all the goodness you can!

To be safe maybe keep the bottles in a cardboard box or something so if it does go boom it won't hurt anyone.

Ive never had to worry about bottle bombs. Approximately how long would it take before they started to explode? The reason I ask is this batch is not for me, it’s for someone else and I was going to give it to them after 4 weeks or just let them know they need to wait 4 weeks before drinking. I would hate to have them go boom on someone else for something I made.

 

[marc1]

You could let it sit for another week or so - if the top skins over more it's no good. It does look a bit odd.

 

[Konadog]

I used these directions;

1pk Knox gelatin to 1/4 cup water. Bring to 71C (160F) (DO NOT BOIL). Add to secondary. Rack beer from primary to secondary on top of gelatin. 2-5 days bottle.

You used an entire package of gelatin? Typically you only use 1/2 teaspoon (1.75 grams) to 1/4 cup to 1/2 cup of water per 5 gallons of beer. You also do this after cold crashing to ensure that any chill haze can be dropped out of suspension along with any yeast that hasn't floculated out. It can be added to finished kegged beer, and bottled beer (like you did) but a little goes a long way.

 

[TennBrewer]

Wow, that's a lot of gel goo! I have found many recipes for using gelatin finings all over this site as well as others in the internet ether. There is one that I found which works well and is simple to make and use:
https://spikebrewing.com/blogs/ask-a-pro/gelatin-finings

 

[VikingBrewer]

You used an entire package of gelatin? Typically you only use 1/2 teaspoon (1.75 grams) to 1/4 cup to 1/2 cup of water per 5 gallons of beer. You also do this after cold crashing to ensure that any chill haze can be dropped out of suspension along with any yeast that hasn't floculated out. It can be added to finished kegged beer, and bottled beer (like you did) but a little goes a long way.

These were the directions I actually copied from somewhere on this forum. No mention of cold crashing before hand but as mark1 mentioned this as well previously I’ll keep that in mind next time. Also all the directions here and on Google, mentioned 1 packet, not 1/2 or other. These packets appear to be 8 grams each.

 

[VikingBrewer]

Wow, that's a lot of gel goo! I have found many recipes for using gelatin finings all over this site as well as others in the internet ether. There is one that I found which works well and is simple to make and use:
https://spikebrewing.com/blogs/ask-a-pro/gelatin-finings

Thanks I’ll save this for later!

 

[camonick]

Right or wrong, these are the instructions I use for 5 gallon batches...
https://blog.kegoutlet.com/how-to-use-gelatin-to-clarify-your-beer/And I’ve also found buying a bulk size is much cheaper than the boxes of packets. I have other uses for it as well.
https://www.amazon.com/Knox-Unflavored-Gelatin-1-lb/dp/B001UOW7D8

 

[DuncB]

I'd just bottle the lot but the last ones I would put a special mark on so you know they are end of barrel. Keep them separate from the earlier ones and see how they compare.
I agree with the cold beer, add finings let clear and then bottle or keg.

 

[VikingBrewer]

Right or wrong, these are the instructions I use for 5 gallon batches...
https://blog.kegoutlet.com/how-to-use-gelatin-to-clarify-your-beer/And I’ve also found buying a bulk size is much cheaper than the boxes of packets. I have other uses for it as well.
https://www.amazon.com/Knox-Unflavored-Gelatin-1-lb/dp/B001UOW7D8

Great article! I’ll definitely save that one. The batch I’m doing is 20 liters (5gal). I just used what my wife had on hand for her baking but I’ll definitely let her know about the bulk idea. This batch was at about 22c when I added the Knox. So if I do this again I’ll make sure to cold crash.

I’ve been staying away from cold crashing just for the reason that, from what I’ve read on it, that once it warms back up to storage temperature the bottles look a bit hazy until chilled again.

 

[DuncB]

Could try some clarity ferm added at yeast pitching time. Enzyme from white labs that is meant to break down the chill haze factors without detriment. I have used the commercial supply of this and had 3ml per 25 litre ferment.

 

[wetmk]

Additional info on the subject.

https://brulosophy.com/2016/04/25/the-gelatin-effect-pt-4-standard-vs-a-lot-exbeeriment-results/

 

[Nuke83]

Cold crash your secondary before bottling. Who knows, you may not need to bottle at all. Just slice your beer into cubes and serve as beer shots!

 

[Brewbuzzard]

You used an entire package of gelatin? Typically you only use 1/2 teaspoon (1.75 grams) to 1/4 cup to 1/2 cup of water per 5 gallons of beer. You also do this after cold crashing to ensure that any chill haze can be dropped out of suspension along with any yeast that hasn't floculated out. It can be added to finished kegged beer, and bottled beer (like you did) but a little goes a long way.

I agree, an entire pack is way too much. Also, as mentioned above he should add the gelatin to very cold beer. I cool mine to about 34f add the gelatin give it a swirl and let it set for a few days. I add my gelatin to the fermenter. He may be seeing extra gelatin floating due to encapsulated co2.

 

[jerrylotto]

These were the directions I actually copied from somewhere on this forum. No mention of cold crashing before hand but as mark1 mentioned this as well previously I’ll keep that in mind next time. Also all the directions here and on Google, mentioned 1 packet, not 1/2 or other. These packets appear to be 8 grams each.

View attachment 723126

The packets contain about 2 tsp. I use 1/2 a packet (1 tsp) per 5g batch but could probably get away with half of that. PS - your paper probably weighs about 2-3 g Using more gelatin simply extends the time it takes to clarify.

 

[VikingBrewer]

Cold crash your secondary before bottling. Who knows, you may not need to bottle at all. Just slice your beer into cubes and serve as beer shots!

That actually sounds amazing!

 

[bwible]

I followed advice in this video:


He says 1 gram of gelatin per gallon. Cold crash, add the gelatin to the cold beer. That’s what I’ve been doing. Worked great for me. I don’t even use Knox, I use the Walmart brand unflavored gelatin.

 

[NGD]

Cold crash your secondary before bottling. Who knows, you may not need to bottle at all. Just slice your beer into cubes and serve as beer shots!

That actually sounds amazing!

It sucks if you keg. I screwed up one time racking 4.2 gallons to a keg, purged them cold crashed. Got in a hurry and mistakenly added a hastily measured 1/2 tbsp instead of 1/2tsp. All was good til a few days later I started to get chunks floating in my beer.
For some reason my DA decided to check the keg. Wanted to pull it out to release pressure before removing the lid and see what was going on. Would have worked except when I detached my liquid line to pull the keg out I had a chunk of gelatin stuck in the poppet. The keg then proceeded to spray an thin arc of beer several feet up the wall and across the floor before I could release pressure. Wife was so stoked she came over for a beer shower wet t-shirt contest (actually she was laughing to the point of tears and asked wtf just happened)
I’ve used gelatin well over a dozen times and that was the first time I ever had jello beer chunks.

 

[VikingBrewer]

It sucks if you keg. I screwed up one time racking 4.2 gallons to a keg, purged them cold crashed. Got in a hurry and mistakenly added a hastily measured 1/2 tbsp instead of 1/2tsp. All was good til a few days later I started to get chunks floating in my beer.
For some reason my DA decided to check the keg. Wanted to pull it out to release pressure before removing the lid and see what was going on. Would have worked except when I detached my liquid line to pull the keg out I had a chunk of gelatin stuck in the poppet. The keg then proceeded to spray an thin arc of beer several feet up the wall and across the floor before I could release pressure. Wife was so stoked she came over for a beer shower wet t-shirt contest (actually she was laughing to the point of tears and asked wtf just happened)
I’ve used gelatin well over a dozen times and that was the first time I ever had jello beer chunks.

LOL
That story made my day! Note to self, double check all measuring tools!

 

[Brewbuzzard]

I followed advice in this video:


He says 1 gram of gelatin per gallon. Cold crash, add the gelatin to the cold beer. That’s what I’ve been doing. Worked great for me. I don’t even use Knox, I use the Walmart brand unflavored gelatin.

It sucks if you keg. I screwed up one time racking 4.2 gallons to a keg, purged them cold crashed. Got in a hurry and mistakenly added a hastily measured 1/2 tbsp instead of 1/2tsp. All was good til a few days later I started to get chunks floating in my beer.
For some reason my DA decided to check the keg. Wanted to pull it out to release pressure before removing the lid and see what was going on. Would have worked except when I detached my liquid line to pull the keg out I had a chunk of gelatin stuck in the poppet. The keg then proceeded to spray an thin arc of beer several feet up the wall and across the floor before I could release pressure. Wife was so stoked she came over for a beer shower wet t-shirt contest (actually she was laughing to the point of tears and asked wtf just happened)
I’ve used gelatin well over a dozen times and that was the first time I ever had jello beer chunks.

I love a good wet t-shirt contest. Many moons ago I was the water boy in charge of pouring the water on the beautiful well endowed girls. I noticed an ice machine next to the water supply. When I poured that bucket of ice water the crowd roared. They were standing tall.

 

[VikingBrewer]

I’m definitely thankful for everyone’s input and making me laugh!
I’ll bookmark those articles and videos for later use and maybe I’ll be brave enough to try cold crashing. Keep the tips coming!

I decided after the taste test and no new growth of the abnormality on the surface, I would give this batch a chance and bottle it up. I left the last inch above the spigot just to make sure I didn’t bottle any of the congealed gelatin. A quality control check in a couple weeks just to be sure before it gets gifted out.

 

[DuncB]

Put that lot in the dark straight away. Looks good just the labels next.

 

[NGD]

Be sure to test one in a 5-6 days “for science”.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

I’m definitely thankful for everyone’s input and making me laugh!
I’ll bookmark those articles and videos for later use and maybe I’ll be brave enough to try cold crashing. Keep the tips coming!

I decided after the taste test and no new growth of the abnormality on the surface, I would give this batch a chance and bottle it up. I left the last inch above the spigot just to make sure I didn’t bottle any of the congealed gelatin. A quality control check in a couple weeks just to be sure before it gets gifted out.

View attachment 723237

View attachment 723238

Nice looking beer

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

You CAN boil Knox gelatin. However, do NOT put the gelatin directly in boiling water, it will clump up and not dissolve.

Get the right amount of water into a sauce pan, immediately sprinkle the geleatin, slowly heat to a boil while stirring.

MC

 

[cactusgarrett]

Since you're using colorless bottles, make sure you keep that beer, especially hoppy ones, out of sunlight! It's been shown that a beer can skunk in sunlight in mere minutes.

 

[VikingBrewer]

Since you're using colorless bottles, make sure you keep that beer, especially hoppy ones, out of sunlight! It's been shown that a beer can skunk in sunlight in mere minutes.

I have a nice dark cool corner in my basement that is perfect where I store all my beer.

 

[cactusgarrett]

Sounds good, but work has been done that shows a well-hopped beer can noticeably skunk in 30 seconds of sunlight. Just don't want you or others to downplay the threat. You taking those pics could have been sufficient time, for example, for that to happen.

 

[VikingBrewer]

Sounds good, but work has been done that shows a well-hopped beer can noticeably skunk in 30 seconds of sunlight. Just don't want you or others to downplay the threat. You taking those pics could have been sufficient time, for example, for that to happen.

Not too worried, not a hopped up beer. This was a light Molson Canadian style beer. I’ve never had any issues with time management between bottling and storage and off flavors even with strong large hopped IPA.