Kitchen sink ale

[eadavis80]

Used Beersmith to concoct this "recipe" - I have a bunch of hodge podge ingredients. This is more just for me to see how much grain I can fit in my kettle using a BIAB method (8 gallon Tall Boy), but I am interested here in knowing which yeast you'd go with given this collection of ingredients:

9.5 pounds Vienna Malt
1 pound Carmel 20
1 oz. Cluster 60
1 oz. Williamette 30
1 oz. Centennial 5
1 oz. Simcoe dry hop

1.049 OG and 30.7 IBUs

My basement at this time of year is about 65-68ish.

Would you go with 1007 given the Vienna malt or go with Safale 05 because it has a better tolerance for higher temps? I also have WYeast 2112 I could use as well.

 

[m00ps]

I'd use US=05 if you want get it at least to the low 60s

Good luck, my first "kitchen sink" beer actually turned into my best selling beer to date. I made it to get rid of a bunch of simcoe and chinook I did not want to go bad

 

[Gnomebrewer]

That's a very rich beer. Lots of maltiness from the vienna, sweetness from 10% cara then lots of strong hop flavours on top.

I'd go with US05.

 

[eadavis80]

Do you see the "richness" being a good thing? Hey - it's an experiment and it'll be a fun process. If the end product works out, great. If not, oh well. I got all check marks on brewer's friend recipe calculator for an American Pale Ale, so it does "match style."

 

[m00ps]

Youll be fine with an all vienna base. I've done that and a 100% munich SMaSH and both werent too rich or anything. Might not make a great IPA or crisp pilsner but itll be ok

Its a "homebrew" style. Should be a new bjcp category for all the random crap we end up doing with our limited resources

 

[Gnomebrewer]

For me, brewing is all about experimenting.

What you are making could be great or might be just ok. I too have made beers with all vienna as the base. It's quite a bit richer than pale malt, but in a good way.

 

[eadavis80]

Yeah, this might be my biggest learning experience brew wise since my first brew. It'll be only my 2nd BIAB and it's my first "recipe" - so there's a lot of learning going on here, which is a good thing. However, in all honesty, after 30+ extract kits, even on my last brew day with my buddy, while it was still fun to sit around and talk and do our brew thing, it was kind of dull. This won't be dull, if nothing else...

 

[jammin]

To be honest - that grain bill sounds AWFUL. Cut the C20 in half and go get some pale 2row or pils to replace that Vienna.

Then move the Willamette and Centennial to 0 for a hop stand.

Use an ice bath with us-05 and keep your Simcoe dry hop.

Then you'll have a beer you'll want to drink more than 3oz of in a sitting

 

[chickypad]

To be honest - that grain bill sounds AWFUL.

Seriously? Have you had an all Vienna beer before? Might be more crystal than I would use but otherwise I think it sounds good. I would mash low, but I don't find Vienna overly malty like munich (which I prefer in smaller doses). I recently did a Vienna/Centennial SMaSH at similar gravity, was quite refeshing actually.

 

[jammin]

Seriously? Have you had an all Vienna beer before? Might be more crystal than I would use but otherwise I think it sounds good. I would mash low, but I don't find Vienna overly malty like munich (which I prefer in smaller doses). I recently did a Vienna/Centennial SMaSH at similar gravity, was quite refeshing actually.

just throw'n in my 2 cents. i don't like malty beers. i prefer my beer dry and hoppy with a dash of specialty malts at most.

if you like all vienna beers more power to you... you don't have to freak out though if i don't like em'

this forum seems to love malt though so Im used to being out numbered. its ok, more hops for me

 

[Cider123]

First I thought, yeah use 05 (just like many others). But what we got here is a
bucket-o-stuff so why stop there. I say use 3711 and ferment it high in the mid to upper 70's.

Let's see if we can bring out da funk.:rockin:

 

[chickypad]

just throw'n in my 2 cents. i don't like malty beers. i prefer my beer dry and hoppy with a dash of specialty malts at most.

if you like all vienna beers more power to you... you don't have to freak out though if i don't like em'

this forum seems to love malt though so Im used to being out numbered. its ok, more hops for me

Fair enough. We'll agree to disagree as I am also a huge hop head and don't typically go for overly malty styles either but I like Vienna. If you had said the grainbill looks AWFUL because you don't like Vienna I wouldn't have commented, just didn't want the OP to feel like he/she was doing something way out there. Kind of like someone asking for feedback on a stout recipe and you say it looks terrible because you don't really care for stouts.

 

[jammin]

Fair enough. We'll agree to disagree as I am also a huge hop head and don't typically go for overly malty styles either but I like Vienna. If you had said the grainbill looks AWFUL because you don't like Vienna I wouldn't have commented, just didn't want the OP to feel like he/she was doing something way out there. Kind of like someone asking for feedback on a stout recipe and you say it looks terrible because you don't really care for stouts.

i said the grain bill looks awful b/c i think it looks awful, not because i hate vienna. don't be so sensitive

edit - there is no style specified so you're argument about stouts is confusing. OP was simply asking for feedback. just trying to help...

 

[mrdail87]

Even with all the vienna, using US-05 at that gravity should still create a pretty crisp beer.

I might just suggest sampling the beer before dry-hopping the simcoe though. I could see it being just as good without it. Curious to hear how this goes.

 

[eadavis80]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I COULD have tried 3711 to "bring out the funk" but since I have another saison in secondary that used that yeast, I didn't really want another batch using that yeast right, evne though - I'm well aware just because beers share the same yeast strain doesn't mean they'll taste alike.

I do like the advice on sampling pre dry-hopping. Thanks.

I can't adjust the grain bill any as the grains are already mixed and crushed. So, that's one reason it's "kitchen sink ale" - I am using what I have and we'll see where it goes.

One thing that does have me baffled is that I put the same recipe on beersmith and brewersfriend and they resulted in different OG's and IBU's. They were fairly similar, but not the same. Maybe one website I put in additional equipment information and that accounted for the difference? Which website do you think more accurately reflects recipes?

Thanks again.

 

[chickypad]

One thing that does have me baffled is that I put the same recipe on beersmith and brewersfriend and they resulted in different OG's and IBU's. They were fairly similar, but not the same. Maybe one website I put in additional equipment information and that accounted for the difference? Which website do you think more accurately reflects recipes?.

I find both pretty accurate, but with Beersmith there are a lot more settings so you need to make sure you get those right. Might want to check the trub losses, etc. on the volumes page. I find it easier to set the trub losses to 0 and set efficiency for my post boil kettle volume.

 

[JKaranka]

I would move the Willamette later, maybe 15m or 10m. I don't see anything madly wrong about the grist but I'd reduce the crystal. You could go maltier and get rid of one of the hop additions and that might end up in more drinkable beer. I like the Cluster, though.

 

[SnakeRidge]

I think it looks great. I too would mash low and taste a sample before dry hopping the simcoe.

Off topic but I love these threads where someone wants to do a batch to use up ingredients and somebody always comes in with "go out and get xyz...."

 

[jammin]

I think it looks great. I too would mash low and taste a sample before dry hopping the simcoe.

Off topic but I love these threads where someone wants to do a batch to use up ingredients and somebody always comes in with "go out and get xyz...."

i love it when people ask for advice on recipes when they are unable to change it .. smh....

 

[Gnomebrewer]

i love it when people ask for advice on recipes when they are unable to change it .. smh....

The OP question was which yeast to use. Not the ingredients.

 

[SnakeRidge]

i love it when people ask for advice on recipes when they are unable to change it .. smh....

He put a constraint on the ingredients.

Don't get so worked up about it. It happens to just about every one of these threads.

 

[jammin]

He put a constraint on the ingredients.

Don't get so worked up about it. It happens to just about every one of these threads.

Keep thrown gas on it ...

 

[eadavis80]

Yeah, the grains I can't change, but the hop TIMES I obviously could. I have already started the yeast starter for 05. Thanks all for your input. We'll see where it ends up in a few months...

 

[eadavis80]

Really bummed on a number of levels here with this BIAB day. I started with 5 gallons of water in the 8-gallon Tall Boy and added the 10.5 pounds of grain. It fit. It was thick at the bottom, but I stirred every 15 minutes and kept a pretty steady temp between 155-160 for just over and hour. Then, I added my 3 hops additions as usual, chilled, aerated and pitched the yeast. I sparged with about 2 gallons of 150 degree water over a strainer into the grain bag which was resting in a crate over my kettle. I took my pre-pitch gravity sample and after I cleaned up I measured it and tasted it - 0-for-2. OG was supposed to be around 1.048 for this batch, but I MIGHT have been at 1.030. The taste was equally disappointing - water up front, hoppy in the middle and it burned on the back. AT this point, I'm just PRAYING it turns into something I can stomach by August, but I'm really bummed. I really enjoyed the BIAB process, but my efficiency is a joke. The taste I'm not really that concerned with, in all honesty. I was just doing this to learn the amount of water + grains I could get in my kettle, but my efficiency is very inefficient. HELP!

 

[eadavis80]

Well, I don't even know if this batch is worth bottling. The clarity and color are good, but the pros stop there. The aroma and taste are downright awful. I dry hopped it yesterday with 1 oz. of Simcoe in hopes of helping the aroma some, but I think the taste is beyond repair. I don't even know if it's worth the .99 in priming sugar to bottle this, let alone with work of bottling, then having to take up 50 of my bottles to house this dismal brew. I might bottle six just to see if it ever gets better, but what are the chances of a brew, that just tastes AWFUL to get better in the bottle? Would you bother to bottle this?

 

[chickypad]

Missing your gravity that much kind of put you behind the 8 ball to begin with. I assume its overly bitterred. Probably the best save would have been some extract on brew day. Can you describe what else the awful taste is? If you lay out your process maybe folks can help troubleshoot. One thing, are you looking at your water at all? If you were doing full volume mash that would be pretty thin, combined with a fairly light grainbill and depending on your water you might have had too high a pH which can lead to issues like astrignency/harhness.

 

[eadavis80]

Off the top of my head it tastes like what I'd imagine moldy seaweed tastes like.
Here are the notes I took along the way - hope you get a laugh...
38. Low Rent Ale – made a 1L starter with 05 a few days before brew day. Let ferment 2 days, cold crashed one day/overnight. Next morning, made next 1L step up and let it sit out for a day and cold crashed late afternoon before brew and overnight. Decanted as a heated up strike water. Put 5 gallons of water in the 8-gallon Tall Boy. Heated up 3 gallons of sparge water to 160. Took about 30 minutes with heat on stove on 9. Put lid on and let sit on low. Fit the 10.5 gallons in the Tall Boy. Ended up using about 2 gallons of sparge water to get around 6 gallons in the boil. Gravity sample – utter disaster. MAYBE 1.030 OG on 4.75 gallons of net wort. Aerated with diffusion stone after pouring initial batch through strainer into bucket. Then poured bucket’s contents into Big Mouth. Sample was watery up front, hoppy in the middle and burned on the back end. Honestly, don’t think this can turn into a drinkable beer. Low ABV + no body + bad taste = . Pitched yeast at 5:15 p.m. on 6/16/15. Really bummed. It’s fermenting (whatever it is) on the morning of 6/17/15. Well, it’s 1.010 on 6/21/15. It no longer burns. It’s better, but still eh… at best, but at least it’s improved and it did ferment. MAYBE it will get lower. 2.6% ABV. Gravity on 6/23/15 was the same so I went ahead and racked it. Will dry hop with 1 oz. simcoe in a week in an effort to improve its aroma. Dry hopped most of 1 oz. Simcoe on 6/30/15. Don’t dry hop through funnel – just dump them in. Clogged sanitized funnel. Sample was at 1.010 so final gravity has been met. Color and clarity good, but aroma and taste were awful. We’ll see what dry hopping does, but this might not even be worth bottling. Horrid smell and taste.

 

[JKaranka]

Strange. Overhopped relative to OG? Had lots of good beers under 1.040 so wouldn't diss anything just by being weak.

 

[chickypad]

Off the top of my head it tastes like what I'd imagine moldy seaweed tastes like.

I got nothing.

 

[eadavis80]

Well, I went ahead and bottled it today. After a week of dry hopping with 1 oz. simcoe, at least the aroma is better and the taste has improved, a TINY, bit as well. MAYBE it will at least get to a moderately drinkable level after a few weeks of bottle conditioning. It was just good enough to bottle, IMO. We'll see by mid-August if the hour or so of bottling, 99 cents in priming sugar, 46 caps and bottles were a total waste of time and storage...

 

[Gavin C]

..... It fit. It was thick at the bottom, but I stirred every 15 minutes and kept a pretty steady temp between 155-160 for just over and hour. Then, I added my 3 hops additions as usual, chilled, aerated and pitched the yeast. I sparged with about 2 gallons of 150 degree water over a strainer into the grain bag which was resting in a crate over my kettle. I took my pre-pitch gravity sample and....!

Did you remove the grains

Did you carry out a boil.

This reads as all wrong.

 

[eadavis80]

Yes, I removed the grains (before bringing the wort to boil)
Yes, I did a 60-minute boil (during which I added my 3 oz. of hops).
Sorry if that was not clear.

 

[Gavin C]

That taste points to an infection I reckon. Moldy seaweed. That can't be good.

The recipe alone shouldn't have resulted in that. Very malty yes but foul taste no.

Do you find those notes you posted helpful?

 

[eadavis80]

What I got out of my notes is that I did not get nearly enough sugar out of those grains to give the beer any backbone. Thus, it's very light, watery and too much like hop juice, rather than hops balancing with malt. If my OG would have been at least halfway decent (at least 1.042 or higher) than I bet the hops wouldn't be so in your face, but they're not balanced - as the 'scales are tipped' way too much in the hops' favor.

Like I said, it's mellowed some upon the post dry hopping taste test, I figured it had improved enough to warrant bottling. I will see what I have 46 starting in a few weeks. It will most likely be a camp fire beer or something to crack open at night's end to keep the buzz going - that is all.

Thankfully, since that batch, my efficiencies have increased in the two other BIAB batches I've done, so I'm hoping the flavor of those two brews comes around as well.

I would DOUBT infection because I have not had one in the other 35+ batches, however, it's not impossible.