Historical Beer: Kentucky Common "Kiss Yer Cousin" Rye Kentucky Common Ale

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Reading through this thread, I'm thinking this might be an ideal candidate for a split batch. Here's what I'm thinking:

2 gallons with US-05.
2 gallons with lager yeast (s-23?) or Wyeast 1028
1 gallon with.... brett(?)

Any thoughts?
 
I was looking at the style description in beersmith2 ...I don't recall seeing this in the thread, so I thought I'd share. (even though I'm going to try Revvy's recipe ...something about kissin' yer cousin sounds intriguing) :)

Kentucky Common
Historical Beer

Type: Ale
Category Number: 27
Original Gravity: 1.044-1.055 SG
Color: 11.0-20.0 SRM
Final Gravity: 1.010-1.018 SG Bitterness: 15.0-30.0 IBUs
Carbonation: 2.50-3.00 Vols Alcohol by Volume: 4.00-5.50 %

Description: A darker-colored, light-flavored, malt-accented beer with a dry finish and interesting character malt flavors. Refreshing due to its high carbonation and mild flavors, and highly sessionable due to being served very fresh and with restrained alcohol levels. History: A true American original style, Kentucky Common was almost exclusively produced and sold around the Louisville Kentucky metropolitan area from some time after the Civil War up to Prohibition. Its hallmark was that it was inexpensive and quickly produced, typically 6 to 8 days from mash to delivery. The beer was racked into barrels while actively fermenting (1.020 – 1.022) and tightly bunged to allow carbonation in the saloon cellar. There is some speculation that it was a variant of the lighter common or cream ale produced throughout much of the East prior to the Civil War and that the darker grains were added by the mostly Germanic brewers to help acidify the typical carbonate water of the Louisville area, or that they had a preference for darker colored beers. Up until the late 19th century, Kentucky Common was not brewed in the summer months unless cellars, usually used for malting, were used for fermentation. With the advent of ice machines, the larger breweries were able to brew year round. In the period from 1900 to prohibition, about 75% of the beer sold in the Louisville area was Kentucky Common. With prohibition, the style died completely as the few larger breweries that survived were almost exclusively lager producers. Style Comparison: Like a darker-colored cream ale emphasizing corn, but with some light character malt flavor. Malt flavors and balance are probably closest to modern adjunct-driven international amber or dark lagers, Irish red ales, or Belgian pale ales.
Profile: Aroma: Low to medium grainy, corn-like or sweet maltiness with a low toast, biscuity-grainy, bready, or caramel malt accent. Medium to moderately-low hop aroma, usually floral or spicy in character. Clean fermentation character, with possible faint berry ester. Low levels of DMS are acceptable. No sourness. Malt-forward in the balance. Appearance: Amber-orange to light brown in color. Typically clear, but may have some light haze due to limited conditioning. Foam stand may not be long lasting, and is usually white to beige in color.
Flavor: Moderate grainy-sweet maltiness with low to medium-low caramel, toffee, bready, and/or biscuity notes. Generally light palate flavors typical of adjunct beers; a low grainy, corn-like sweetness is common. Medium to low floral or spicy hop flavor. Medium to low hop bitterness, which should neither be coarse nor have a harsh aftertaste. May exhibit light fruitiness. Balance in the finish is towards the malt. May have a lightly flinty or minerally-sulfate flavor in the finish. The finish is fairly dry, including the contributions of roasted grains and minerals. No sourness. Mouthfeel: Medium to medium-light body with a relatively soft mouthfeel. Highly carbonated. Can have a creamy texture. Comments: Modern characterizations of the style often mention a lactic sourness or sour mashing, but extensive brewing records from the larger breweries at the turn of the century have no indication of long acid rests, sour mashing, or extensive conditioning. This is likely a modern homebrewer invention, based on the supposition that since indigenous Bourbon distillers used a sour mash, beer brewers must also have used this process. No contemporaneous records indicate sour mashing or that the beer had a sour profile; rather the opposite, that the beer was brewed as an inexpensive, present-use ale. Enter soured versions in American Wild Ale.
Ingredients: Six-row barley malt was used with 35% corn grits to dilute the excessive protein levels along with 1 to 2% each caramel and black malt. Native American hops, usually about .2 pounds per barrel of Western hops for bittering and a similar amount of New York hops (such as Clusters) for flavor (15 minutes prior to knock out). Imported continental Saazer-type hops (.1 pounds per barrel) were added at knock out for aroma. Water in the Louisville area was typically moderate to high in carbonates. Mash water was often pre-boiled to precipitate the carbonate and Gypsum was commonly added. Considering the time from mash in to kegging for delivery was typically 6 to 8 days, clearly aggressive top-fermenting yeasts was used.
Examples: Apocalypse Brew Works Ortel’s 1912
 
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I was looking at the style description in beersmith2 ...I don't recall seeing this in the thread, so I thought I'd share. (even though I'm going to try Revvy's recipe ...something about kissin' yer cousin sounds intriguing) :)

Kentucky Common

:mug:

Well that's because this thread pre-dates the BJCP style guidlines. A lot of folks credit O'Daniel and myself with "rediscovering" this style of beer- and this thread especially. I've gotten messages from commercial brewers (and even some local breweries) who have said they never heard about the style until the read my thread/brewed this recipe.
 
I brewed 10 gallons of this today, with one change, I bittered with 1 oz of Cascade at 60 , and then used the 1oz of Cluster at 10mins ...smelled amazing.

If I ever make this again I'll use some rice rulls, the combination of Rye and Corn was creating problems recirculating during the mash , and sparging.

Thanks for the recipe Revvy, can't wait to try it. :mug:
 
I'm really pleased to have found this thread and to have learned the history of this beer style. It tastes great too! I brewed a 2.5 gallon batch on October 14th using 6-row and substituting Carafa III for the black patent. Pitched with White Labs cream ale yeast blend. I think everything is spot on to the style and will definitely be making this again. Thanks for sharing your recipe Revvy!

Kentucky common - Copy.jpg
 
My final yield a couple weeks ago was 2 sixtels, and 4 bombers. I cracked open a bomber today, and here's what it had to say, "Burrrrrrrp " lol

Seriously, it reminds me of something between a cream ale and a Lager (Octoberfest?). It's smooth and drinkable like a session ale, and just enough flavor to remind you you're drinking a craft beer without being heavily hopped. I really like this beer, and I'm looking forward to the next week when one of the kegs is carbonated fully.

Cheers @Revvy :mug:
 
My final yield a couple weeks ago was 2 sixtels, and 4 bombers. I cracked open a bomber today, and here's what it had to say, "Burrrrrrrp " lol

Seriously, it reminds me of something between a cream ale and a Lager (Octoberfest?). It's smooth and drinkable like a session ale, and just enough flavor to remind you you're drinking a craft beer without being heavily hopped. I really like this beer, and I'm looking forward to the next week when one of the kegs is carbonated fully.

Cheers @Revvy :mug:
Sleepy, you'll like this beer even better 6-8 weeks on. I've made it several times, all the original Revvy recipe.

All Hail Revvy!
 
Revvy you wouldn't happen to have a partial mash or extract with specialty grains recipe version of this would you? Would love to try this out but just don't have the equipment for all grain at the moment. I have done quite a few partial mashes however so if it could be scaled down to something along those lines I think I could certainly handle it.

I know this is an old thread but I just bottled what Me and the guy at the LHBS came up with as an extract version and while I don't know how similar this is to Revvy's but it is delicious .

I just bottled this today (Brewed to have on New Years Eve) and tell you what I'm gonna make another one of these very very soon (probably right after I brew an extract version of MysticMeads Raging Irish Red for St. Paddy's day!

Kiss Yer Cousin [extract] (or at least something that's WOW!!

<pre>
Fermentables:
5 lb Briess CBW Golden
1 lb Corn Sugar

Steeping Grains:
8 oz Rye Malt
3 0z Briess Caramel 60L
2 oz Briess Blackprinz

1 oz Cascade pellets (60 min)

WLP080 (Cream Ale Yeast)
5 oz priming sugar

Ferment at 65F for 1 month
Cold crash and fine with gelatin (optional)
Bottle condition for at least 2 - 3 weeks
</pre>
 
I know this is an old thread but I just bottled what Me and the guy at the LHBS came up with as an extract version and while I don't know how similar this is to Revvy's but it is delicious .

I just bottled this today (Brewed to have on New Years Eve) and tell you what I'm gonna make another one of these very very soon (probably right after I brew an extract version of MysticMeads Raging Irish Red for St. Paddy's day!

Kiss Yer Cousin [extract] (or at least something that's WOW!!

<pre>
Fermentables:
5 lb Briess CBW Golden
1 lb Corn Sugar

Steeping Grains:
8 oz Rye Malt
3 0z Briess Caramel 60L
2 oz Briess Blackprinz

1 oz Cascade pellets (60 min)

WLP080 (Cream Ale Yeast)
5 oz priming sugar

Ferment at 65F for 1 month
Cold crash and fine with gelatin (optional)
Bottle condition for at least 2 - 3 weeks
</pre>


Thanks for doing that.... let us all know how it turns out!
 
The KY common extract recipe was absolutely a hit.

I can't say the same for my spiced Christmas Ale :( but who knows give it a couple more months of aging and it might mellow out. I knew I shouldn't have added any cloves :)

Everybody was amazed at how smooth and drinkable (sessionable ;) ) it was.

I was on kid duty so I was not a member of the population.
Most noted observations:
1. The lack of any lingering taste or residue. It left the palate quite clean and ready for another :)
2. Balance, it was remarkably balanced.
3. Folks wished they could find something like it in the store.

Now, I don't know how it compares to Revvy's. would be very interested to see, but at this time I'm not set up for All Grain.

I will definitely keep this one in rotation.

My historical year-round beer of choice has always been a good (Hofbräu) Munich Dunkel but I may have to create something of a double helix back and forth pattern between this and dunkel.

Thanks again to everyone who pioneered the reinvestigation into this style.
 
Made the US-05 version and it is the definition of balance. Refreshing, flavorful, light, smooth, part-mineral, part-spice, part-earth, part-sweet... the first beer on my 'must re-brew' list. So true about suddenly finding the third in hand.

Having never had a Kentucky Common, it's kind of hard to explain. If, before this brew, I were blindfolded and forced to guess (at knifepoint), I would have gone with 2.5 parts crispy-clean lager, 1 part Vander Ghinste Oud Bruin. If that makes sense.

Outstanding job on this recipe. :mug:
 
Ok, this thread really got me hooked. I did not realize how old it is, but it was a joy to read this thread completely from "me and a buddy sending mails about our results of researches regarding the lost beer style Kentucky common" to "officially recognized as bjcp style".

I will most definitely brew this beer asap. Thanks for all the input guys, really appreciated. Will use nbs west coast ale, which is supposed to be rebranded bre 97.
 
And there's a lot more to explored here too, I think - all the way from yeast/temp to carbonation levels, possibly even fruit additions (figs somehow immediately come to mind - thoughts? Cherries? Pears?), dry-hopping. The deliciousness of this beer is in its transitions. Why it's hard to describe. It isn't anchored in any one aroma or sensation and, at the same time, it's totally coherent. So much to pay attention to. Also, the head is velvety af, and sticks around forever (or maybe I'm just drinking em pretty quick). Mahogany in color.

Already scheming a 5 x 1 gallon split batch. US-05 is going to be real tough to beat though - if it does, I'll enter my first comp. :yes:

Dry-hopping ideas? Other?
 
I thought about keeping 30% of the hops for flame out, but I do not know the cluster hop taste. I do no chill so I wouldn't lose much ibus but gain some hop flavour.

I guess I will just stick to the original for the first time, I even have a pack of us 05 flying around which I could use. Some people did not like it so much after multiple tries so I guess I will go with the repacked bre 97 which should do the job very well.
 
30% flame out Cluster *could* work, though I would probably suggest sticking to the original 1st time around. Or maybe split-batch, one of which could be Cluster dry-hopped?

I was also surprised to read of US-05 mishaps. I mean, it's the single most widely used yeast, and super reliable/clean in my experience. As long as you keep your wort temperature in the right range (65ish-69ish). I do think using another yeast will definitely have a noticeable impact on the overall balance. Everything is so well-connected here. It'll be a puzzle of different shapes and sizes.

I'm thinking to give Wyeast1318 a shot. And also a steam version. I saw someone mentioning Wyeast 1028....
 
30% flame out Cluster *could* work, though I would probably suggest sticking to the original 1st time around. Or maybe split-batch, one of which could be Cluster dry-hopped?

I was also surprised to read of US-05 mishaps. I mean, it's the single most widely used yeast, and super reliable/clean in my experience. As long as you keep your wort temperature in the right range (65ish-69ish). I do think using another yeast will definitely have a noticeable impact on the overall balance. Everything is so well-connected here. It'll be a puzzle of different shapes and sizes.

I'm thinking to give Wyeast1318 a shot. And also a steam version. I saw someone mentioning Wyeast 1028....
Yes, I guess you are right. I will stick to the original and use the us05 and also the original hop scedule. I already got the yeast anyway, so what's the use of it if it just lies around and gets older and older.

If the beer really is that good, I will try other versions next time I brew it :)
 
I can't remember if I have ever posted on this thread, I've done this beer many times and to me it tastes like a really good Yuengling me. Actually probably better than yeungling it has more flavor and and a touch of Spice. This is one of those beers that I try to brew once or twice a year.
 
Ok, this thread really got me hooked. I did not realize how old it is, but it was a joy to read this thread completely from "me and a buddy sending mails about our results of researches regarding the lost beer style Kentucky common" to "officially recognized as bjcp style".

I will most definitely brew this beer asap. Thanks for all the input guys, really appreciated. Will use nbs west coast ale, which is supposed to be rebranded bre 97.

I'm not a glory hound, though honestly it would have been great to have, when the articles came out a few years back, AND bjcp acknowledge it as a style for some of them to have said that "a couple of guys on a brewing forum known as homebrewtalk re-discovered the style, one of them because he was looking for a civil war era beer to brew for his vintage base ball club."

I have had a few commercial brewers who know brew it acknowledge that they found out about it here. One of them is from a local brewery too.
 
I'm not a glory hound, though honestly it would have been great to have, when the articles came out a few years back, AND bjcp acknowledge it as a style for some of them to have said that "a couple of guys on a brewing forum known as homebrewtalk re-discovered the style, one of them because he was looking for a civil war era beer to brew for his vintage base ball club."

I have had a few commercial brewers who know brew it acknowledge that they found out about it here. One of them is from a local brewery too.
Most definitely. I would have missed that to.
 
@Revvy
The only Crystal malt that I could find that at least goes into the direction of 120l was special b. I still got a 90l Dark Crystal at home but cannot find something as dark as 120l, which would be about 320ebc.

What would you suggest, going for the one I already got or shall I buy some special b?
 
Hello guys,
I am trying to give it a try to this recipe but my local store doesn't have Black Patent Malt and Crystal/Caramel 120L.
For Crystal/Caramel 120L I could buy Weyerman CaraAroma or Special W - which one should I chose ?
For Black Patent Malt I should buy Weyerman Carafa Special III , but my local store only has Carafa Special II - if the color isn't a big thing for me, only the taste, should I use 2 oz of Special II or should I compensate and use more?
Thank you !
 
Can you get Special B and Carafa [not Special] III?

I just looked up Special W and I think it ought to work. This is not a real picky recipe.
Only Weyerman type so no Special B :( .
The store only has Carafa Type 1, Carafa Special Type I & II
 
Brewed it today :)

Standing outside for no chill, will pitch the us05 tomorrow. Did use Black malt instead of black patent, otherwise I copied the original recipe to the point. I even managed to get the 120L crystal :)
 
It's fourth on my schedule (1. Rye Saison, 2. Oatmeal Stout, 3. NEIPA). First 5 gallons gone. Record speed.

Wonder what this would be like with.... Wyeast 3711?

Saison Kentucky?
 
I have brewed this beer a number of times. Done the original version and a few tweaks of my own. I really like the version that I have on tap now. Similar to the original but I discarded the black patent and added some cherry smoked malt, and used malted rye instead of the flaked rye. Seems to add a bit of a different spicy flavor than the flaked rye. Also fermented with wlp007 at the higher end of its range. Used home grown cascade for hops to. I know its not the same beer, But i really like it.
 
I discarded the black patent and added some cherry smoked malt, and used malted rye instead of the flaked rye. Seems to add a bit of a different spicy flavor than the flaked rye. Also fermented with wlp007 at the higher end of its range. Used home grown cascade for hops to. I know its not the same beer, But i really like it.
How much homegrown cascade?
 
I met the expected gravity to the point with the 25 litres and pitched the yeast this morning. Hopefully it will be bubbling when I'm home from work :)
 
OK, to correct myself, I overshot the expected OG and did hit 1.05 instead.... not too bad.

Interesting fact, the reading this morning did show that I had 1.046, but there was a lot of trub floating in the liquid. I was wodnering if the trub is affecting the reading in some way, so I just let it stand there till I got back from work 8h later, in the meantime the trub settled completely, so the liquid was clear. Now I am reading 1.05. Both readings have been taken at the same temperature. Only difference was the trub.

Interesting. Did not expct the trub to change the result into this direction.

Happy days! My effciency is not as bad as I thought it was :D

But unfortunately, no activity yet.
 
Did anyone ever get a good water profile on this one? I brewed this years ago and I’m gonna brew it again this weekend but now I actually care about water profiles.
 
Did anyone ever get a good water profile on this one? I brewed this years ago and I’m gonna brew it again this weekend but now I actually care about water profiles.

Funny.... the more experience I've gained, the more I do NOT care about water profiles.

Regarding the overall topic, being that this is my first post on this topic... I have brewed Mike Dixon's old sour mashed version of a KC. To me, it was not sour at all, despite the mash smelling funky after 3 days. The finished beer tasted much like an English bitter. If I brew it again, which eventually I probably will, I will brew it the same way, but hold on to the sour mash for at least 4 or 5 days to see what happens. I don't think the sour mash really helped it or hurt it much, so I want to take it longer to see what happens.
 
Funny.... the more experience I've gained, the more I do NOT care about water profiles.

Regarding the overall topic, being that this is my first post on this topic... I have brewed Mike Dixon's old sour mashed version of a KC. To me, it was not sour at all, despite the mash smelling funky after 3 days. The finished beer tasted much like an English bitter. If I brew it again, which eventually I probably will, I will brew it the same way, but hold on to the sour mash for at least 4 or 5 days to see what happens. I don't think the sour mash really helped it or hurt it much, so I want to take it longer to see what happens.
I might be doing the same with a one gallon batch, just to see how it tastes. I maybe infect the mash with the juice from my wildly fermented home made sauerkraut. Going to be fun!
 
Bottled it today, first sample tasted really really promising!

OG was around 1.05, FG is around 1.07. Cannot tell the FG precisly as my new hydrometer is meassuring a bit off.....

Now the hardest part..... bottle conditioning..... I can't wait!!!!!


.... placed the last beer I bottled (heavy trub and lots of yeast inside) on the heater, should be fine to drink in 5 days :D
 
I started on them a week in with UK-style carbonation, all the way through to highly carbed, and it was delicious every time. The lower carb levels allows the grains to be fully exhibited, a sip to develop. The higher carb levels are also great: light, refreshing, perfectly balanced. The head is so silky smooth that even a little bit goes a long way.
 
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