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Kettle Peach Sour?

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SailorJerry

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Ok, we have crates of peaches in at our local store, and we are having a crazy idea of trying to make our first kettle sour, and then use the peaches in infuse some more flavor. However, I have no idea how to make a sour, never tried making one, but I love drinking them.

Can someone, anyone, give me some input?
I'm assuming we have to skin, quarter (to get the pit out), and sweat the peaches down, maybe adding sugar, to make our own purree? Is it added after fermentation or at the same time we move the wort to ferment?

For a kettle sour, I'm assuming we need a PH reader to determine how sour the beer will be, or at least to gauge where we want to be, ph wise, vs how sour the beer is?

Thoughts?
@TwistedGray @PianoMan

Someone, anyone, chime in :)
 

deadwolfbones

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To answer your specific questions:

1. I would personally just skin, pit, and quarter the peaches (and skinning is probably optional if you wash them well) while wearing gloves (to limit additional exposure to yeast/bacteria), then vacuum seal or just put them in a ziploc and freeze them to break down the cell walls. When it comes time to infuse the fruit, just put the frozen peaches in your secondary fermenter and rack the fermented out beer on top of 'em. Let it sit for a week or so and then bottle/keg. (This is one of the few occasions where I use a secondary!)

2. You don't need a pH meter per se, but it's definitely handy to have. If you use the method I outline in that post, pre-acidifying the wort and using the recommended amount of Goodbelly, you're definitely going to have a ~3.2-3.4 pH wort after 24-48 hours.
 
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Dgallo

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@SailorJerry
You can do it simply since you want to kettle sour it.
8 lb - 2 row
4lb - white or red wheat
Souring blend - Omega 605

Primary yeast US 05

Mash and sparge as desired. I like drier sours but again it’s prefernce.

Then slice the peaches and freeze them. When fermentation is almost done purée the frozen peaches (1-1.5lbs per gallon) and add it to the fermenter and give it another 7-10 days to ferment clean.

Do you know the kettle souring process? I didn’t want to explain it if you did
 
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SailorJerry

SailorJerry

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@SailorJerry
You can do it simply since you want to kettle sour it.
8 lb - 2 row
4lb - white or red wheat
Souring blend - Omega 605

Primary yeast US 05

Mash and sparge as desired. I like drier sours but again it’s prefernce.

Then slice the peaches and freeze them. When fermentation is almost done purée the frozen peaches (1-1.5lbs per gallon) and add it to the fermenter and give it another 7-10 days to ferment clean.

Do you know the kettle souring process? I didn’t want to explain it if you did
I have read a bit about the process, but not much. Fill me in if you've got the time! We've brewed everything else, but haven't tried a sour, even though I looooveeee sours!

I wrote a thing just for you!

https://brew4fun.wordpress.com/2019/01/21/how-to-brew-a-kettle-sour/

(Just kidding, but it's still useful.)
Thanks DeadWolf for both posts!
 

deadwolfbones

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I should add that lacto is self-limiting when it comes to pH, so you're never going to get much below 3.2.
 

TwistedGray

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Peaches - remove the pit and quarter them. There is no reason to pull the skin and no reason to puree. In fact, I wouldn't bother with puree because it's puree and becomes a pain in the ass. With apricots I half them, pit them, and toss in as is.

Quantity of Adjunct - I use the same ratio for all beer (sour or otherwise) which is 1lb fruit to 1gal beer. I would not use less than this, and I do not see an issue using more. In fact, I suspect the uber fruit forward sours use not only more fruit but extract and other adjuncts that help "extract" the flavor of the fruit (vanilla is a common go-to).

Timeline - I always give my fruit at least two weeks before pulling, but it usually turns into three or four weeks. You have to be careful with oxygen exposure because it can cause mold to grow on the fruit if the fruit is floating, so be cautious!

Kettle Souring - Create your wort (no hops). From there pitch your buggies (souring agent), and keep the temperature of the wort at the ideal temperature for the buggies (it'll vary but 90-110F is probably a reasonable frame of reference to start with). Caution - it is recommended that you avoid oxygen ingress at this stage (blanket of Co2 works or just don't agitate the wort <-without Co2 this is fine). After about 36hrs the souring agent will have done its job, and you can oxygenate and add whatever you want (basically, treat it like regular old wort at this stage). Pitch the yeast when it drops to your pitching temperature, ferment, and then once fermentation is complete you will want to add your adjunct. Caution - In kettle souring you will at least bring it to a boil for a bit to kill the remaining buggies.

@RPh_Guy has other methods of souring that will allow you to avoid the temperature hold that I note above (ie: keeping at temp for 36hrs). One of his methods is quite simple - pitch the yeast and lacto at the same time. In this situation you still do not want to add any hops to your wort (everything adjunct base you might as well hold off until post fermentation/souring.

Hope that helps!
 

SanPancho

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Pretty sure copitching wasn’t invented by anyone here in this forum. Been an open source method longer than ive even been alive.

One thing id like to point out to op is that peaches are notorious for being light on the flavor when added to beer. Ditto for strawberry and often blueberry. Dont be afraid to use alot, but just plan ahead for the gallon or two you’ll lose in volume that the fruit soaks up. Sucks to get a great beer out of all the effort and wind up with something that disappears in a few days.
 

Soulshine2

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Pretty sure copitching wasn’t invented by anyone here in this forum. Been an open source method longer than ive even been alive.

One thing id like to point out to op is that peaches are notorious for being light on the flavor when added to beer. Ditto for strawberry and often blueberry. Dont be afraid to use alot, but just plan ahead for the gallon or two you’ll lose in volume that the fruit soaks up. Sucks to get a great beer out of all the effort and wind up with something that disappears in a few days.
and adding to make sure the fermenting vessel is large enough to accept the amount of fruit to get the right flavoring level. and be ready with a blow-off tube !!
 

Dgallo

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and adding to make sure the fermenting vessel is large enough to accept the amount of fruit to get the right flavoring level. and be ready with a blow-off tube !!
I always like letting the beer ferment out, until there is like 10 points left then add the fruit. That way the fermentation isn’t too crazy. Also this may be anecdotal but I felt after doing this the nose of the fruit seemed a little brighter. But again that’s just a personal observation
 

t1m1

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Guys, what do you think (if there is no secondary available) about to kill yeast after primary fermentation and adding fruit after?
 
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marc1

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Guys, what do you think (if there is no secondary available) about to kill yeast after primary fermentation and adding fruit after?
Like backsweetening a wine? You'd have to keg it to carbonate or bottle it still.
 

t1m1

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Yes, something like that. Just to have pure fruit aroma without yeast "work" introduced. Mainly speaking about nectarines, raspberries and sour cherries.

As the matter of carbonating, I use only kegs and always looking at that direction. ;)
 

Dgallo

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Guys, what do you think (if there is no secondary available) about to kill yeast after primary fermentation and adding fruit after?
In my opinion you’re asking for trouble to put fermentables in a keg. Any wild bacteria/yeast in the keg or on the fruit can will causes infection. Micro organisms still work in fridge temps (it’s the reason milk goes bad in the fridge). If you’re bottling you will 100% have bottle bombs.
 

t1m1

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In my opinion you’re asking for trouble to put fermentables in a keg. Any wild bacteria/yeast in the keg or on the fruit can will causes infection. Micro organisms still work in fridge temps (it’s the reason milk goes bad in the fridge). If you’re bottling you will 100% have bottle bombs.
I use this to kill (or stop) the yeast in all my kegged bears. Plan to use that after primary fermentation and before kegging.
 

Dgallo

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I use this to kill (or stop) the yeast in all my kegged bears. Plan to use that after primary fermentation and before kegging.
@RPh_Guy you may be the best one to answer this. I’m not familiar with this product or it’s ability to inhibit brewers yeast/wild microbes
 

marc1

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I use this to kill (or stop) the yeast in all my kegged bears. Plan to use that after primary fermentation and before kegging.
I've used sulphite/ sorbate to stabilize a skeeter pee variant that I backsweetened and keg carbed.
 

Jag75

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I don't believe that stuff kills yeast it just stops it . It's sulfite and sorbate mixed i believe. I use sulfites and sorbate in my mead and it works really well.

This is the calculator that @RPh_Guy showed me .

 

RPh_Guy

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Here's my sour beer article for anyone that might have missed it. Kettle souring is an outdated process. Modern method are easier, less risky, faster, and produce a more flavorful beer.

With regard to preventing fermentation, yes, it is theoretically possible to chemically stabilize sour beer using sorbic acid and sulfites, with a number of caveats.
Sorbic acid inhibits yeast replication including domesticated and wild yeasts.
Sulfites prevent bacteria from causing off-flavors in the presence of sorbic acid and also inhibit oxidation.

  • The yeast must be removed from the beer before stabilization, and also from any fruit juice added (e.g. it can't be unpasteurized/unfiltered juice). Depending on the method it may also be prudent to wait a couple weeks after fermentation to stabilize.
  • The level of sulfites should be adjusted to the pH of the beer (molecular SO2 about 0.8mg/L is probably a good target). This is why I wouldn't recommend a mixed product like the Vinoferm stabivit linked above. Don't forget to account for binding
  • The beer will need to be force carbonated.
My article on sulfites is a work in progress, but it should help:
I don't cover stabilizing beer in this article because nobody does it and IMO nobody should do it, but you can look at the information in stabilizing wine.
 

t1m1

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Thank you very for your detailed answer. Unfortunately, I don't have access to yeast and bacteria blends needed for that modern methods. I will use exactly this method for my first time.

I have tried several sours made using that method and all were extremely tasteful for me.

Only reason I want to kill or suspend yeast after primary fermentation is to get more taste and aroma from the fruit.
 
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t1m1

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Here I am, again. :p
Do you guys have any experience or opinion about using compote instead of fresh fruit for sour beers?​
 
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