kellerbier - how much yeast to use to ferment?

[marshall_tucker]

Hey guys, recently got the notion to try a kellerbier. Here's where i'm going with the main question...i've 2x 11.5 gram packs of w34/70, almost a year old, refrigerated throughout the duration so i estimate the viability to be around 95ish %. Ive been of the school of thought that considers both packs necessary for making a clear german lager in order to survive the long cold winter of lagering (so that there is enough yeast left for bottle carbing, i do not have a keg system). Reading various articles and recipes for kellers suggest varying lengths of celler time though it seems to me that about a couple weeks is appropriate for this style to allow the cloudy and low carb nature.

I think i answered my own question though, since kellers are low carb, 2 packs yeast is probably overkill/contradictory. And yes, they are by no means a "clear german lager", i was only using that bit as a starting point. Just need a sanity check.

This might be a 2 part question though, how long have/would you cellar a kellar (hah i make a rhyme)

Thanks

EDIT: I originally specified yeast viability at approx 80%, which is probably a good assumption to work with, but according to the site below, i may be much better off in this dept.
http://beersmith.com/blog/2010/12/14/yeast-starters-for-home-brewing-beer-part-1/

 

[marshall_tucker]

To follow up, i read Mike Dawson's recipe which calls for 2 weeks cellaring at 55F. I noted the fair-sized starter of 2 liters. This may be fueling my confusion, albeit i may have already been confused from the beginning.

Works Cited:
http://northernbrewer.blogspot.com/2010/02/kellerbier-time.html?m=1

http://brewingtv.com/recipe/2011/3/...hundchen-zweimaschverfahren-dunkel-kelle.html

 

[beersk]

I would say ferment the beer like you would any lager and just drink it fresh. You still want to pitch a healthy amount of yeast and do everything right. Also, it doesn't necessarily need to be low on carbonation. I had a Zwick'l kellerbier this past weekend at a German pub that was cloudy, but carbonated normally. It was awesome.

 

[marshall_tucker]

true story. as you speak, i realized i forgot to look at fermentis's's's spec sheet. if i read correctly, pitching dose at +53F is to be 80-120 grams per hectoliter. 5 gallons = .19 hl, which would mean i need at least 15g...so 2 packs it is then.

btw i thought i recall reading that zwickels are supposed to be more carbonated though, so perhaps that's why?

 

[helterscelter]

I thought carbonation level was a function of available sugar, alcohol tolerance and temperature. Does pitch rate really impact carbonation potential?

 

[marshall_tucker]

I figure in an ideal scenario, all other factors aside, more yeast in would "increase the odds" of having more cells around after lagering to do the carbing, but by no means should you quote me. I recall reading elsewhere on here from a knowledgeable source that this was good practice. It is known though that lagers require larger starters, so makes sense

 

[beersk]

I thought carbonation level was a function of available sugar, alcohol tolerance and temperature. Does pitch rate really impact carbonation potential?

Nope.