Keggle component suggestions

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Orangecrusher

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Hi everyone. Awhile back I gathered materials to start a 2 vessel K-RIMS electric brewery using two sanke kegs. Summer got busy and I had to put the project aside for a bit but now I'm back to it.
Last night I was going over what I've purchased so far and reviewing what notes I had made. I hadn't refined my plan 100% and some things were still up in the air which is what I'm hoping to address here with some questions to people who have done it all before.
First, I plan to use the Auber EZ-Boil 320 controller. The question I have regarding this is what dictates the length of your RTD. Is something a couple inches fine or do I need to reach father in? Also, I'm contemplating using two RTD's, one in the keggle and one in the MT, but they would be used separately during the boil and the mash respectively. Is this a good idea? The element in the Keggle would be controlled by the RTD in the MT during the mash/lautering. I would run both sensors to a switch in the controller so I can select the proper one at the appropriate time, unless there is some way to use two sensors with the EZ-Boil, but I haven't seen where there is any mention of it. My thinking is the MT sensor would be a longer probe to reach into the center of the mash about a quarter the way up the vessel. I could see a problem with using a system like this when the mash gets stuck or just from hysteresis and the element heating up too much without any change in the RTD.
 
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Orangecrusher

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If that is too boring of a question, perhaps someone would like to share their pickup tube setup.

I was told to just use the sanke port for a cleanout and add a separate outlet so that I could whirlpool. Just wondering what that might look like. Sanke's aren't flat on the bottom(actually the top) so I'm not sure how far out to go with the tube. I'd imagine I could go almost to the center because most of the debris from whirlpooling will probably fall down the sanke port(drain). I hate wasting good wort.
 
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Orangecrusher

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I think I'll just use a 1/2" threaded bulkhead fitting with a compression fitting on the backside and come up with some bent tubing.

I realise this is all elementary and talked to death a millions times. I'm just concerned about the holes I need to cut and where at this point. Got stuff crisscrossing every which way in these setups.

I've searched for mentions about RTD lengths and I'm not finding much so I assume it's not all that important.

I'll just experiment and see where it takes me. Wish I could delete threads lol.

Salute
 

Broken Crow

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Naw..Don't delete.. You'll get some more detailed feedback than I can give at the moment (Got brain-damage that makes me process things very slowly, but I get there in the end) I do have questions:
Are you saying that you'll be putting a heating element directly in your MT?
..working with only one controller might prove problematic too.. The usual place for a sensor with the mash tun is either on the top of a RIMS tube, or the output of a HERMS..and I assumed no HERMS since you've stated 2-vessel.
To be clear: Are you cutting out the top or the bottom or one of each on your kegs?
Important question: How much can you spend? ..minimal or maximal or somewhere in the middle?
Do you have a pump or 2?
If you haven't seen it already, go over this marvellous guide: Building Your Brewery
:mug:
 
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Orangecrusher

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I'll check out that link. Thank you; not sure if I've seen it yet, but I like any ideas I can get my hands on.
So I'm doing a K-Rims which is using the brew kettle as the "Rims tube". There will be one element and it'll be in the boiling "keggle". The Sanke kegs will be turned upside down and a hole plasma cut where the bottom used to be. I have tri-clover conversion fittings to turn the original Sanke outlet into a port I can use. It will end up being a 1/2" threaded outlet.
I also have a flexible weldless sight glass for the side of the boil keggle, a full false bottom for the Mash Tun keggle, one pump, and two of the types of ball valves which you can disassemble to clean. Finally I have two 1.5" weldless tri-clover bulkheads and one 1/2" threaded bulkhead fitting that are available for other components which I'm establishing now.
I figure one tri-clover will be used for the RTD temp sensor on the boil kettle. I was contemplating a second RTD temp sensor on the Mash Tun but I think that over-complicates and causes more opportunity for problems than it's worth. Maybe I'll use that one 1/2" threaded bulkhead for my siphon port on the bottom of the boil kettle which leaves me with one 1.5" tri-clover left to find a use for. I won't need a bottom port on the MT because I will be using the Sanke conversion port for that underneath.
I hope your following me still.
I haven't even gotten to my inlets and how I want those. I think I'm gravitating toward wand type inlets which I can clamp to the top. That way I can play with how it's setup and changing things is easy.
I could probably get away with not even drilling any holes in the MT, however, I will most likely use that second tri-clover to put a analog thermometer on the side to have a closer account of the temps during the mash.
I still plan to get one more pump for a total of two, but I still have to find out if that's necessary. I just see most setups like mine with two. I'll be using quick-connects so moving hoses around ought to be easy once I figure out what the hell I'm doing. lol
So maybe I'm brain damaged too because for me, picturing how the brewing process will go in an electric setup is kinda hard despite having brewed with a burner for over 20 years. I gotta remember it's ok to experiment and make some mistakes. I'm an electrician and a mechanic by trade so I get a little more involved in the building process and lose sight of the big picture sometimes which is making beer and having fun. I'm certain I'm making this much more complicated than it needs to be.
I haven't been able to brew since I decided to go electric and I don't think that has helped me much either as I've kinda forgotten a lot of what I knew before, although it'll come right back once I get going again.
 

Broken Crow

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Sounds like just one temp sensor on the output/return of the BK (to the MT, and later, for reciculation in the BK) should work just fine, in a tee on the keggle out valve.
 

Broken Crow

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...for an accurate MT temp, you'd probably want a handheld probe that you check various levels with to fine tune the temp setting coming out of the BK.
 
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Orangecrusher

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I've heard on the output is better because it avoids error due to stratification inside the vessel. However, it conflicts with the operation of the controller on warmup unless I were to recirculate from bottom to top to get a reading for the boil or mash out. But then again I've seen a probe in the output of the MT to better measure the mash temp yet that brings me back to two temp probes.

See I keep hitting these forks in the roads.lol
I guess I want to stay simple to begin with. Perhaps I'll look into a probe on the BK outlet to start with. This will mean one less hole in the BK.
 

Broken Crow

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You could always put camlocks on the sensor tee and do a couple batches trying each position to see what works best for you. I know there are quite a few others on here with a similar setup (but the search engine isn't that great) so if we keep bumping your thread, hopefully one of them will weigh in.:mug:
 
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Orangecrusher

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I decided for now I will put the sensor in the side of the BK. I can always change it later or add another, but for now that makes the most sense. I ordered some more cam lock fitting last night since I only had enough for one side and also two more bulkhead threaded fittings to use for the returns at the top of the vessels. For sparging I think I'm just going to go with silicone hose instead of a sparging mechanism. I'll make some kind of whirlpool cane and pickup tube for the BK out of copper for now until I figure out what works best and then have something made of SS. I still need to order my controller parts and a plate chiller. I think I'll be setting all this on a rolling cart I will make out of aluminum 80/20 and starboard tops.
 

doug293cz

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I decided for now I will put the sensor in the side of the BK. I can always change it later or add another, but for now that makes the most sense. I ordered some more cam lock fitting last night since I only had enough for one side and also two more bulkhead threaded fittings to use for the returns at the top of the vessels. For sparging I think I'm just going to go with silicone hose instead of a sparging mechanism. I'll make some kind of whirlpool cane and pickup tube for the BK out of copper for now until I figure out what works best and then have something made of SS. I still need to order my controller parts and a plate chiller. I think I'll be setting all this on a rolling cart I will make out of aluminum 80/20 and starboard tops.
In the side of the BK, with the tip near the element, and in a line between the element and the BK outlet to the pump. This gives you the best sensitivity to temp changes with the least time delay, and the lowest chance of overheating (or even scorching) your recirculating wort. Your MT temps will be lower than the temp in the BK, so you need to characterize what the temp difference is, and use it to offset the controller setpoint to hit your desired mash temp. Here is a good thermometer for probing multiple points within the volume of a mash.

I'll also throw out my preferred control panel design for E-BIAB and KRIMS. It has a safe start function that prevents main power from being turned on unless the pump and element enable switches are OFF. This can prevent nasty surprises on power up.

DSPR300 1-Pump 1-Element 240V rev-2.PNG


Brew on :mug:
 
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