Kegging 101 for newbie

[Brewer_Dad]

Hi all, I want to pick your brain...and warn you about a long post coming.

I've read all that has to be read about kegging and carbonating, both regular and forced; I was finally able to buy a couple of 5gal kegs, as well as 2 Co2 tanks (20lb for carbonating and purging, 5lbs for the keezer I'm building), regulators and stuff. My main question is about the steps prior to the process of kegging itself. I usually go like this:

1. Ferment in primary in temp controlled chamber until FG is reached and stable. Usually 5-7 days for an ale. Will try Kveik soon.
2. Transfer to secondary vessel, where I drop gelatin and cold crush for 5-7 days.
3. Transfer to a bottling vessel at room temp, where I add dextrose and bottle.
4. Condition bottles at room temp for at least 8 days.
5. Chill, and enjoy.

So, I'll like to get general opinions on what should be the process after 1) and before 5) for kegging. Main questions are:

Do I keg directly after cold crush?
How do you keg using pressure to avoid oxigen?
In case of lagering, should I lager before or after carbonating?

Those are the questions that come to mind. Any extra tips, are well appreciated.

Cheers!

 

[Knightshade]

You'll have other who provide a massive more detail than I'm about to but..I'll preface this with stating that I never bothered with bottling.

I've recently decided against cold crashing due to suck in of Star San and O2. There are ways to overcome this..but in the end I think I just don't want to bother. I just let it settle in the keg and utilize floating dip tubes.

I transfer via @Dgallo's outline here: Turning your Fermonster into a complete closed transfer system for cheap!

While prepping for the actual transfer, I'll have 2 kegs setup. 1 is full of Star San and the other is empty. I push the Star San to the empty keg with CO2, then push the beer from my Fermonster to the purged keg.

Regarding your question about Lagering..I believe standard practice is that the Lagering process is part of the fermentation step. I've only done 1, so I'm not an expert. More will chime in I expect.

I was kegging two batches this day...so I decided to not was the CO2 that was being used to push from the fermenter to keg and daisy chained it together. So the keg in the middle was full of Star San and was pushing to the empty keg on the very left.

 

[cactusgarrett]

2. Transfer to secondary vessel, where I drop gelatin and cold crush for 5-7 days.
3. Transfer to a bottling vessel at room temp, where I add dextrose and bottle.
4. Condition bottles at room temp for at least 8 days.

2. No need for a secondary. This is relatively unnecessary and can introduce oxygen. First, cold crash, then add the gelatin - gelatin has been found to be MUCH more efficient at fining when added to a cold crashed beer.
3. Correct, but you'd skip this step if kegging. See below. Side note - you can add a variety of sugars to carbonate (including DME and sucrose (table sugar).
4. Correct.

A. Do I keg directly after cold crush?
B. How do you keg using pressure to avoid oxigen?
C. In case of lagering, should I lager before or after carbonating?

A. Cold crash, add gelatin, transfer to keg. Done.
B. There have been a ton of experiments done to evaluate risks of oxygen exposure, and most who care start by purging their keg with CO2, then transferring from the fermenter to that purged keg.
C. You can save time by lagering while carbonating, if you're setup to do so. But lagering before versus after carbonating in the keg doesn't really matter.

 

[Brewer_Dad]

B. There have been a ton of experiments done to evaluate risks of oxygen exposure, and most who care start by purging their keg with CO2, then transferring from the fermenter to that purged keg.

This is what I need to learn now. Thanks.

 

[cactusgarrett]

This is what I need to learn now. Thanks.

The easiest way I've done it is to fill the keg with StarSan and close it up. Then use CO2 to push the StarSan out (around 2psi). Once empty, it's now a completely closed and purged container. Then, transfer from your fermenter directly to the keg by affixing up your tubing with a liquid out disconnect to one end and the other end your normal dispensing method (however you have it done - racking cane, spigot, etc.). Hook up the tubing to the liquid out and your fermenter, open the keg pressure relief valve, and start your flow. Boom - (nearly) closed system transfer. You could get fancier by ensuring CO2 goes into your fermenter to push beer out, but I personally find that unnecessary.

 

[McKnuckle]

The other way to do it is to avoid both StarSan and bottled CO2, and purge the serving keg during primary using natural fermentation gas.

First, sanitize the keg with StarSan, but then dump it out.

Hook up tubing from your fermenter's bung to the keg's liquid out port. Then hook up tubing from the keg's gas port to a blow-off jar. The entire CO2 volume exiting the fermenter will be sent into the keg, forcing out oxygen.

At the end of fermentation, you'll have a keg full of CO2 at atmospheric pressure (don't open it). Transfer beer into the liquid port either with the PRV pulled open, or the blow-off still attached, to vent the displaced gas while the keg fills.

 

[ATLBeer]

The entire CO2 volume exiting the fermenter will be sent into the keg, forcing out oxygen.

What volume of CO2 is generated by a 5 gallons of fermenting beer. I doubt it is 5 gallons worth, so would the keg be full of CO2?

 

[McKnuckle]

It’s a cr*p ton. Check out this thread.

 

[Knightshade]

My first time doing this sort of thing after reading about alot of other people doing it. I hooked up my fermenter from a batch that I brewed on Sunday to 2 5G kegs earlier today. 1 was full of Star San, the other was empty. About 2 hours and 15 minutes later..it is already halfway done.

 

[day_trippr]

It is indeed a cr@p ton.
I have 10 gallons of wcipa purging the kegs it will end up in and it's amazing how hard the output of the 2nd keg is bubbling...



Cheers!

 

[Beermeister32]

Agree with the above. No need for a secondary.

 

[NSMikeD]

For what it’s worth, I.use mesh bags or a hop spider for the hops, use Whirlock tabs, let my wort rest 20 minutes before transferring to a cheap conical (my grain and water volumes generously upped to minimize trub being transferred. I don’t use a secondary (my keg is for that), purge with CO2 and let the beer condition about 2 more weeks before cold crashing. That yields crystal clear beer for me. There is sediment in the bottom of the keg that doesn’t get sucked up.
The above pic is a kolsh I lagerred for a month slowly dropping to 37* before tapping.

in any case aside from limiting trub into the fermenter and a bit of temp control and patience, I find This simple, approach effective.

 

[Wolffie]

It’s a cr*p ton. Check out this thread.

Now that is some math !! LOL Again your down to earth explanation! Thanks

 

[Beermeister32]

Looks fantastic!

 

[wsmith1625]

You'll have other who provide a massive more detail than I'm about to but..I'll preface this with stating that I never bothered with bottling.

I've recently decided against cold crashing due to suck in of Star San and O2. There are ways to overcome this..but in the end I think I just don't want to bother. I just let it settle in the keg and utilize floating dip tubes.

I transfer via @Dgallo's outline here: Turning your Fermonster into a complete closed transfer system for cheap!

While prepping for the actual transfer, I'll have 2 kegs setup. 1 is full of Star San and the other is empty. I push the Star San to the empty keg with CO2, then push the beer from my Fermonster to the purged keg.

Regarding your question about Lagering..I believe standard practice is that the Lagering process is part of the fermentation step. I've only done 1, so I'm not an expert. More will chime in I expect.

I was kegging two batches this day...so I decided to not was the CO2 that was being used to push from the fermenter to keg and daisy chained it together. So the keg in the middle was full of Star San and was pushing to the empty keg on the very left.

View attachment 710456

This is not for the OP, but a reply to @Knightshade. I use @Dgallo method as well and it has made cold crashing so simple. I never cold crashed before and now I do it for every batch. Just remove the blow off tube and pressurize your Fermonster to 5lbs. I step down to 34 degrees, 5 degrees at a time and have never had a problem. It's PET, so if the pressure in the Fermonster gets low, you'll see when the walls dimple. Just hit it with more co2 if that happens.

 

[ATLBeer]

It’s a cr*p ton. Check out this thread.

Thanks for the link that was an interesting read.

TL;DR answer:

we created about 439 L or 439,000 cm^3 of CO2

 

[Knightshade]

This is not for the OP, but a reply to @Knightshade. I use @Dgallo method as well and it has made cold crashing so simple. I never cold crashed before and now I do it for every batch. Just remove the blow off tube and pressurize your Fermonster to 5lbs. I step down to 34 degrees, 5 degrees at a time and have never had a problem. It's PET, so if the pressure in the Fermonster gets low, you'll see when the walls dimple. Just hit it with more co2 if that happens.

Wait...what? I tried the mylar thing...yeah that was a disaster. I bought a cold crash guardian...and I messed up something because I almost burst the darn bag and while it is still intact, I've been afraid to use it again. And..haven't cold crashed since..I think that was about 2-3 batches ago?

I was going to try and figure out how to leave enough pressure in this recently Star San purged keg and hook it back up to the Fermonster that it could be utilized for cold crashing....which I'm also fairly certain I'd chicken out of.

So you've seen that the 5 lbs is enough to equalize out..more or less? That..is gold. I'll definitely try this w/the batch that is fermenting right now. Especially valuable since I'm dry hopping this batch and was thinking about using a bag since I wasn't going to cold crash.

 

[wsmith1625]

Wait...what? I tried the mylar thing...yeah that was a disaster. I bought a cold crash guardian...and I messed up something because I almost burst the darn bag and while it is still intact, I've been afraid to use it again. And..haven't cold crashed since..I think that was about 2-3 batches ago?

I was going to try and figure out how to leave enough pressure in this recently Star San purged keg and hook it back up to the Fermonster that it could be utilized for cold crashing....which I'm also fairly certain I'd chicken out of.

So you've seen that the 5 lbs is enough to equalize out..more or less? That..is gold. I'll definitely try this w/the batch that is fermenting right now. Especially valuable since I'm dry hopping this batch and was thinking about using a bag since I wasn't going to cold crash.

Yeah man. When you pressurize the Fermonster it gets taught like a soda bottle. Keep an eye on it as the temperature drops and hit it with more co2 if it gets loose or dimples. I wouldn't go over 5lbs.

 

[Brewer_Dad]

I will follow the advice of a fellow brewer who does this for a living and will sanitize the keg, pour the beer with a syphon and then purge the remaining air with co2. Then I'll lager it and carbonate it prior to serving it.

Thanks everyone, this has been quite an informative thread!