kegged lagered diacetyl

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sudsey

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Okay I have kegged lagered and force carbed for the best part of a week. .. tried the beer last night. . Has butter Scotch written all over it. .. think it would be a great beer if not for the diacetyl. Its sorachi pils all grain. Anyway. . What's my best bet to get rid of this flaw? I have disconnected gas and purged and put keg at room temp.
 
I think uncarbonating it and bringing it to room temp is a good start. If it were me, I would just be patient with it. If you want to be more proactive then you could do a small starter with a neutral flavored yeast, bring it up just past a krausen level of activity, and then pitch it. They will eat up the diacetyl. This is not a perfect solution because when I did this it ended up introducing a different subtle flavor that I didn't like, but the diacetyl was reduced. I am sure that there are other people out there with a better solution.

How long did you leave your beer in the primary?
 
I think uncarbonating it and bringing it to room temp is a good start. If it were me, I would just be patient with it. If you want to be more proactive then you could do a small starter with a neutral flavored yeast, bring it up just past a krausen level of activity, and then pitch it. They will eat up the diacetyl. This is not a perfect solution because when I did this it ended up introducing a different subtle flavor that I didn't like, but the diacetyl was reduced. I am sure that there are other people out there with a better solution.

How long did you leave your beer in the primary?

I think only two weeks. By De carbonation do you just mean purging regularly? I have some lager yeast that I rinsed in storage. I could make a starter and pitch it. Would you take the beer out of the keg and into a fermenter?
 
It's not likely you can get rid of the diacetyl, as it depends on what caused it, but perhaps pitching a starter at high krausen (at room temperature) might help, if the cause is due to yeast issues. If it's contamination/infection, it'll get worse and not better no matter what.
 
It's not likely you can get rid of the diacetyl, as it depends on what caused it, but perhaps pitching a starter at high krausen (at room temperature) might help, if the cause is due to yeast issues. If it's contamination/infection, it'll get worse and not better no matter what.

Damn lagers. . Should just make ale. Do you mean transferring kegged beer to a fermenter before pitching lager yeast starter? Or just aging to keg and purging on the reg?
 
Damn lagers. . Should just make ale. Do you mean transferring kegged beer to a fermenter before pitching lager yeast starter? Or just aging to keg and purging on the reg?

Just adding it to the keg, at room temperature, and hope it cleans up the diacetyl.

Did you do a diacetyl rest before lagering? That's usually where it's nipped in the bud.
 
Just adding it to the keg, at room temperature, and hope it cleans up the diacetyl.

Did you do a diacetyl rest before lagering? That's usually where it's nipped in the bud.

No I didn't. . Certainly will in future. . Although pretty annoyed. . Might be using ale yeast for a while
 
The reason I asked how long in the primary was because if you seperate wort from yeast too soon then the yeast don't have a chance to clean up diacetyl. Maybe try 3 wks instead of 2 next time. I'm glad yooper weighed in here and she made a good point that diacetyl could be from an infection.
 
I'm glad yooper weighed in here and he made a good point that diacetyl could be from an infection.

Actually, she made a good point (as usual).;)

I'm afraid that it's going to be tougher to get rid of the diacetyl now. As I understand the process, during the d-rest (I do 61-62*F 3 days, then taste/feel a sample) we're encouraging the conversion of alpha-acetolactate to diacetyl and also the consumption of diacetyl by yeast to get the amount of the buttery-tasting compound below detectable levels.

How long did you lager? I'd try cold-lagering this between 35-38*F for a month or two and see how that helps.
 
There is a pretty simple test you can do with your beer to determine if the yeast has cleaned up the diacetyl. Its detailed here: http://scottishcraftbrewers.org/?p=805

In short, take a sample of your fermented beer. Split it into two samples. Cover each. Keep one at room temp. This is your control. Take the other and put it into a hot water bath of about 150F. Leave it in there for about 20 min. Let it cool to room temp. Then smell each of the samples. It should be apparent if there is diacetyl. If there is, you just give the beer more time before packaging.

My understanding is that applying heat forces the diacetyl precursors to become diacetyl.
 
Okay. I have a lager starter on the go and I am planning on pitching it into the keg at room temperature. I don't think it's contamination add my ales have always been clean and I did not do a diacetyl rest. Do I have to keep purging the keg during the krausening? Or just leave it and let it carbonate the keg simultaneously? Thanks guys
 
sudsey said:
Okay. I have a lager starter on the go and I am planning on pitching it into the keg at room temperature. I don't think it's contamination add my ales have always been clean and I did not do a diacetyl rest. Do I have to keep purging the keg during the krausening? Or just leave it and let it carbonate the keg simultaneously? Thanks guys

By purging the keg do you mean release the pressure? I think you should release the pressure because too much will stress the yeast, although I can't imagine it would evolve much co2 at this point.
 
Yes I meant releasing the pressure. Okay cheers. Will let you know how it goes
 
ok, i have added lager krausen to the kegs and left for one week at room temp.. will chill tonight and let you know results:fro:
 
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