Keg Pasties

[Orfy]

Are you going to research the market first.
And you really do need a vendors licence if you are here in a professional capacity.
Thanks for shortening the signature.

 

[Kegerator]

I did my research on the part, not on the people. I guess I missed that. I am glad I had a chance to put this in front of some good brewers before I went full steam and placed an order to have them made for me in a factory. This forum provided me a place to talk it out and see what people thought before I went past the point of no return. Thank You.
My next Idea, I will run by the collective, before I get the patent.

 

[Bobby_M]

You're getting valuable hard-truth feedback here. I'm sorry it's such a downer, really. I've had great ideas that turned out not so great. Nothing ventured nothing gained right?

Homebrew gear can get really expensive and sometime you just have to spend it because there are proven benefits to the more expensive option. Then there are solutions that are dirt cheap and nearly as effective. We're always trying to save where it doesn't matter to apply that money to where it really does. Ok, lots of words to basically say a 1" piece of hose, infinitely replaceable for 10 cents a pop is the "good enough" solution that you solved with a $10 option.

Many of us look at big stainless conicals in a similar way, a great toy with some level of benefit but plastic and glass fermenters work too. Find a gap for which no simple DIY solution exists. Then figure out if you can make something at a price point that won't cause anyone to explore DIY solutions. Use the autosiphon as an example. It's $9 and something that you'd be hard pressed to DIY for even close to that price. Some people don't think it's all that great, but it's probably sold 10,000 units. Anyway, lots of benefit, hard to DIY for less.

 

[Kegerator]

A 1" hose will not make an air tight connection around the Keg and the air lock. If you are just using it for primary, where the beer is constantly creating enough CO2 to blow out any air, then that is a cheap solution.

You could use a regular Gas Connector and a hose to an air lock, that would be air tight, but then you have a lot of parts to clean.

You could use a longer hose to a bucket, but that takes up more floor space, and you have an open water source that will be a harbor for what ever floats in to it.

Heck you could just pop the check valve every now and then to let out the extra CO2, but yeast produce different flavors as CO2 increases and they die at higher levels of CO2.

You are right there are a lot of ways of doing this cheaper, But none of them do it as well.

The reason for the cost of the part is that it is made out of Food Grade Silicone, and it takes 24 hours for the silicone to set. When (if) I can find a company to make them the price will go down a dollar or two, based on volume. Next time you are at a kitchen store look at the silicone bake ware, it is very expensive. I could make this out of regular rubber for a lot less, but I would not want that touching my beer.

 

[Bobby_M]

Sorry. I meant a 1" long piece of 3/8" ID PVC tubing like seen here:

It may be true that it's not a perfect seal but it could be considered good enough if you're using the keg as a 4-gallon batch primary. As was mentioned, if you're using it for a 5-gallon secondary, the airlock is unnecessary.

I don't know what material carboy caps are made of but I'd imagine it to be a cheaper material than silicone. What you've basically made is a carboy cap that fits a corny post.

Here's a question, are they flexible enough to accomodate the larger diameter pinlock posts?

 

[CarlLBC]

sounds like alot of trouble for something that any one can do pretty easily. I've been using kegs for a while for lagering and conditioning, but I just bought extra firestone lids and removed the presssure relief and put a stopper in it like the picture shows. not much more of a benefit except thinner vessel to fit more in a fridge or something and the fact that they're stainless steel.

sorry if the image doesn't upload. i'm not good with computers.

 

[Kegerator]

sounds like alot of trouble for something that any one can do pretty easily. I've been using kegs for a while for lagering and conditioning, but I just bought extra firestone lids and removed the presssure relief and put a stopper in it like the picture shows. not much more of a benefit except thinner vessel to fit more in a fridge or something and the fact that they're stainless steel.

sorry if the image doesn't upload. i'm not good with computers.

I wish I would have seen this 2 years ago.

 

[kinison_fan]

...My next Idea, I will run by the collective, before I get the patent.

Not to continue beating you up, but you'll want to patent the idea first, then get feedback on the idea, then make prototypes, manufacture, etc...

Not saying anyone here would steal your idea, but it is a public forum. If you seek approval of your idea before the patent, you may find someone else has applied for a patent on your idea...

 

[Brewing Clamper]

...My next Idea, I will run by the collective, before I get the patent.

That's the spirit! Keep it up man, who knows maybe you'll come up with some cool stuff that we can all use...

 

[Kegerator]

Patents are expensive, The Keg Pastie has had all it's patent paper work done, now I am just waiting on the patent office "Patent Pending". My next Idea I don't think I'll bother with a patent, way too much time and money.

 

[Bobby_M]

Ok, Mr. Kegerator sent me a free sample of the keg pastie to give it a once over and post my review.

Initial observations convinced me that it's exactly as described. Nice silicone rubber, soft, smooth, easy to clean/sanitize. One end has a slightly larger hole to make it easier to stretch over a keg post and it does fit pinlocks and ball locks. I would agree that the materials and manual process makes manufacturing quite expensive which requires the $10 price tag.

Unfortunatly, holding the thing in my hand and trying it out on a corny doesn't change the inherent problems with the product.

Just to be thorough, they are.

1. Not practical to primary ferment 5 gallons in a corny. Unecessary to use an airlock for secondary.

2. Not difficult enough for an average brewer to DIY a similar solution in order to justify probably more than it costs to manufacture the pastie.

You can get a 12" piece of 3/8" ID silicone tubing from Mcmaster.com for $2 which is enough to make 6 of these devices. No molding necessary. It's soft enough to stretch over a keg post and still fit an airlock. Then again, I don't think anyone would primary in a keg.

Ehhh, misguided efforts in this particular product I'm afraid but I hope you keep trying. By the way, I thought they'd make nice little sanitary caps but I found someone already thought of that.

 

[Kegerator]

Bobby_M

Thank you for your time to evaluate my Keg Pasties. And I agree with you to a point.

1. It is not always practical to do primary fermentation in a 5 gallon keg. However if you are doing a lager or wine or mead where you don’t have any blow off or a Secondary fermentation it is very practical.

2. The DIY solution of 3/8 ID tube works good for short term use where the yeast is crating enough positive pressure in the keg to keep any O2 out. But does not form a tight enough seal around the airlock for long term aging.

Again, thank you for your time and effort to evaluate my part. Your input is greatly appreciated. You are correct a Keg Pastie is not the right solution for fast primary fermentation. And for people looking for an inexpensive short term fix.

 

[Bobby_M]

If you find yourself standing behind the idea and product, my only suggestion is to take another look at other plastics/rubber that might be cheaper to have injection molded/extruded. I think the price point of this thing will be the difference between a moderate sales and no sales. Medical grade silicone is likely a bit overkill. I think the sweet spot is about $2. As was suggested early, the only hope you'd have is to convince home brew stores to buy them in bulk from you. You'll never break even if you have to ship them one at a time to end users.

 

[Kegerator]

That is an Excellent Idea. I totally agree I think one of my biggest problems is the price. I can make them a lot cheaper with other rubbers, but I have yet to find an injection molding company that can deliver any food grade parts at less than 3.50 for the raw part, plus shipping plus mold making (I have had quotes from $2,000 to $8,000 just for the mold), plus mark up for the LHBS, that puts me where I am now, and i do not even get a cut at that price. If you happen across any injection molding shops that can do food grade at a good price let me know.
Then again maybe I should give up the quality of the rubber just to make a cheap part, that people can afford.

 

[EvilTOJ]

I thought I'd put my two cents in here as well. I have to say that if I saw a keg pastie at the LBS for $2 or less I might pick one up as an impulse buy. I could see me using one every so often when I use a keg to secondary, or to lager in a keg. However, if I saw it for pretty much anything over that price, I'd pass it by without a second thought.

Just my input.

 

[Cheesefood]

It's great - one guy is trying to make carboys into kegs and another guy is making kegs into carboys and no one is super keen on either idea. Kudos for trying to "build a better mousetrap" folks. Keep the creativity alive.