Keg carb at serving pressure

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

Oneandone

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2021
Messages
23
Reaction score
3
Location
Chicago
Finally getting into kegging and kegged my first batch. My first batch is a 5 gallon American session ale. I have it at 34 and at 9-10 psi. Would it be something to disconnect it from the gas. Roll it a bunch and then connect gas back on till it stops filling and repeat 4-5 times? Then let it sit for 2-3 days connected to the gas at the same pressure? Or is this essentially doing nothing?
 

Golddiggie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2010
Messages
12,568
Reaction score
928
Location
Living free in the 603
The method of carbonating (trying to do a rapid forced carb) that involves rolling and such also has you set the pressure to above serving. I've never used that since I never felt the need to rush it. Most of the time I would set it at serving pressure, at serving temperature, and then leave it for at least two weeks before pulling any.
More recently I've been using a carbonation lid (got mine from MoreBeer) to get the beer carbonated a bit faster. It still needs to reach serving temperature (I figure it takes about 2 days for the beer to reach that in the keezer). Then you start at 3-4psi for one hour, increasing by 2psi per hour until you hit your target. Then you leave it for 24+ hours. They say you can sample at the 24 hour mark and decide if it needs longer or not. Last couple of kegs, I just left it at final pressure for 2-3 days and then removed the lid.
My method going forward will be to carbonate in conical fermenter. Which means that by the time it goes to keg, it's fully carbonated, chilled, and ready to go to glass. Or ready to get canned since each batch will have part kegged and the rest put into cans (for sharing over distance).
 

day_trippr

Moderna Or Bust! :D
Joined
May 31, 2011
Messages
36,706
Reaction score
19,368
Location
Stow, MA
Our favorite carbonation table shows that combination would eventually reach equilibrium at ~ 2.5 volumes, a good choice for many or even most styles.

If you are in a hurry, you could leave the gas connected to the keg at 9-10 psi, then just rock the keg back and forth from vertical while listening to the CO2 gas flowing. Keep rocking until the flowing stops and you're pretty close to saturation. Let it sit for a couple of hours in the fridge then repeat the rocking until the gas stops. Do that cycle three times and aside from the beer being totally stirred up the carbonation level will be pretty darned close to ideal.

By using "chart pressure" there's no way to overcarb the keg...

Cheers!
 

odie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2016
Messages
1,486
Reaction score
661
Location
CC, TX
I pressurize my kegs to 60psi after the O2 purge. then they go in cold storage. After a while it's low and I hit it again to 60' repeat just a few times (head space is small and beer space is large). by then it's carbed somewhere close to what I want. It may sit in storage for a week, a month, a year. When a tap opens up I move that keg in and set my reg for serving pressure and let it finish.

Set and forget at your serving temp is the correct, but slow way.

burst/force carbonating is an "art". there really is no chart for that. trial and error. You can force it fast but you want to stop before you hit you target. The trick is knowing when that is. All depends on how much pressure applied. Is it a burst or constant pressure. For how long is it held constant. Or how long is the burst allowed to absorb? What is the current beer temp. etc... Then you "set and forget" to finish it.
 

Golddiggie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2010
Messages
12,568
Reaction score
928
Location
Living free in the 603
@odie When you say 'cold storage' what temperature are you talking about? Since to some people that would be 35F where others will see that as 65F.

I'm really looking forward to having the beer fully carbonated before it leaves fermenter.
 

odie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2016
Messages
1,486
Reaction score
661
Location
CC, TX
Right now I store my lagers at 40' and ales at 60' after kegging. Though I might drop to 35/50-55.

I guess the idea of "lagering" is to let the yeast finish up over several weeks and the beer to clear. But if you have a constant FG then it's pretty much done anyway so maybe 35 is better to get it to drop clear faster.

My some of my ales have honey, candi syrup or maple syrup added at kegging so 60' allows then to continue to ferment over several weeks/months. Not sure I wanna go too much lower and have the yeast shut down completely.

Anyway, the issue for you will be your fermenter. Is it pressure rated? what PSI? At ale fermentation temps the PSI can be as much as 4x higher than your serving PSI if you intend to be fully carbonated in the fermenter.

Use the charts. decide what volumes of CO2 you want it served at and then the temperature of your fermenter will show you how much PSI you need.
 

Golddiggie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2010
Messages
12,568
Reaction score
928
Location
Living free in the 603
Right now I store my lagers at 40' and ales at 60' after kegging. Though I might drop to 35/50-55.

I guess the idea of "lagering" is to let the yeast finish up over several weeks and the beer to clear. But if you have a constant FG then it's pretty much done anyway so maybe 35 is better to get it to drop clear faster.

My some of my ales have honey, candi syrup or maple syrup added at kegging so 60' allows then to continue to ferment over several weeks/months. Not sure I wanna go too much lower and have the yeast shut down completely.

Anyway, the issue for you will be your fermenter. Is it pressure rated? what PSI? At ale fermentation temps the PSI can be as much as 4x higher than your serving PSI if you intend to be fully carbonated in the fermenter.

Use the charts. decide what volumes of CO2 you want it served at and then the temperature of your fermenter will show you how much PSI you need.
Two Spike CF10 (working pressure is 15psi) fermenters coupled with their chill coils and a glycol chiller will let me get the finished beer to carbonating temperature easily, and quickly. Carbonation stone will do the work on that side. Once the yeast goes in, the beer is in a closed system. I use a spunding valve to ferment under pressure, for the several benefits that gives me.
I plan to cold crash it to 35-38F and then carbonate. I'll fill a 3 gallon keg and then the rest (at least another 3 gallons) will get canned.
 

day_trippr

Moderna Or Bust! :D
Joined
May 31, 2011
Messages
36,706
Reaction score
19,368
Location
Stow, MA
3rd post.
Rocking the keg at "chart pressure" is the only deviation from straight out "set and forget for 2 weeks plus a few days" that I do.
I don't do any form of high-pressure "burst carbing" because my pipeline is long enough I never need to do anything that desperate....

Cheers! ;)
 

Tobor_8thMan

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Feb 15, 2013
Messages
3,371
Reaction score
1,862
Location
Go 97 miles and take a right...
3rd post.
Rocking the keg at "chart pressure" is the only deviation from straight out "set and forget for 2 weeks plus a few days" that I do.
I don't do any form of high-pressure "burst carbing" because my pipeline is long enough I never need to do anything that desperate....

Cheers! ;)
Sorry, @day_trippr, perhaps I am mistaken and giving undo credit? I thought in the past you made me aware of, at least 30 psi, for 1 to 2 days and then backing off to the desire levels of CO2. Perhaps, I am not remembering correctly.
 

bracconiere

Jolly Alcoholic
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 19, 2018
Messages
14,368
Reaction score
6,740
Location
S.AZ
Would it be something to disconnect it from the gas. Roll it a bunch and then connect gas back on till it stops filling and repeat 4-5 times?
it would be something, but you'd want to keep it hooked up to the gas. and expect to do a "Whole lotta shakin'"


i've gone back to set and forget recently, because my kegs are full. but when i was in a hurry i'd do it by weight, ~1oz of co2, is good carb level for me, with 10' 3/16" line.....served at 10psi....
 

Tobor_8thMan

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Feb 15, 2013
Messages
3,371
Reaction score
1,862
Location
Go 97 miles and take a right...
Forget the "Shaking" nonsense (unless we're messaging about the Eddie Money song). Set regulator to 30psi and force carb for 1 to 2 days, then back the regulator down to the desired levels of CO2 for a few more days.. Result? Serving carbonated homebrew.
 

day_trippr

Moderna Or Bust! :D
Joined
May 31, 2011
Messages
36,706
Reaction score
19,368
Location
Stow, MA
Sorry, @day_trippr, perhaps I am mistaken and giving undo credit? I thought in the past you made me aware of, at least 30 psi, for 1 to 2 days and then backing off to the desire levels of CO2. Perhaps, I am not remembering correctly.
I may very well have related that procedure as it has been fairly commonly stated over the years here, but I take no credit for it...

Also, you can call a process "nonsense", but when it has a favorable and totally deterministic outcome, I think you're firmly planted on sand.
One need only relate the number of "Help! My beer is complete foam!" from all of the burst carbonation failures. Meanwhile, find me one example of a "rock at chart pressure" that didn't result in perfectly carbonated beer with the mere investment of a little time...

Cheers!
 

SFC Rudy

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
128
Reaction score
69
Location
Junction City, KS
When I force carb a keg, I use one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072XHVVVQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I start at 30 psi, shake/roll for about a minute and watch the flow meter until gas stops flowing. Repeat a few times. then lower the psi per the carbonation chart and shake/roll. When gas stops flowing after shake/roll, your beer is carbed to your desired volume of CO2.

Another benefit is you can see if you have a leak in your system.
 
Top