Keg and serve cider at room temp help

[Corey Fish]

Hi there! No room for a kegerator and I have 5-10 gallons of hard cider from this years apples that didn’t come out super great. I’m planning on adding tannin, acid, stabilizing and backsweetening followed by first timer kegging.

Keg room is 62-64degrees, and I’d like to use either a hand tap or the ball lock direct attach faucets for serving.

Question is, without having to use an absurd length of tubing, what kind of pressure for kegging and serving should/can I use.

I realize that at some point, the cider will be maximally saturated with CO2 at that temp but I can’t seem to find any calculators to determine what that max saturation point would be.

I’d like to get 2.2-2.5 but I realize that would mean setting the keg at 20-24 psi which I imagine would require a very long beer line to minimize foam? I’m fine with less and calling it a ‘cask style’ but need help dialing in numbers.

I guess what I’d like to know is, at that temp, how high can i reasonably go with a directly attached faucet? A hand tap? How much beer line?

Thanks physics friends.

Corey

 

[madscientist451]

Whoa, this year's apples? Didn't come out that great? Why not let it sit a while and come back to it? I'm drinking cider tonight from 2015 apples. I have some stuff in the basement that's much older. If you want to experiment with adding things to make it better, go for it; but cider isn't beer, there's no rush.... if the taste doesn't suit you, just let it sit and taste it in the spring. Maybe try adding some oak and doing some blending with the results? Maybe by then you'll have a way to keep kegs cold. Small chest freezers are really cheap right now.
Its also only November, I haven't even pressed any apples yet. See if you can get some late season, tree-ripened apples in your area, make some more cider and next spring, do some blending. I usually start rounding up apples in late October, and November, let them ripen some more and press in late November, early December. I've pressed end of the season apples as late as January. You could also hunt around for a late season blend already pressed from a local orchard. Ferment that and do some blending trials when you notice your apple trees blooming in the spring.

 

[Corey Fish]

Whoa, this year's apples? Didn't come out that great? Why not let it sit a while and come back to it? I'm drinking cider tonight from 2015 apples. I have some stuff in the basement that's much older. If you want to experiment with adding things to make it better, go for it; but cider isn't beer, there's no rush.... if the taste doesn't suit you, just let it sit and taste it in the spring. Maybe try adding some oak and doing some blending with the results? Maybe by then you'll have a way to keep kegs cold. Small chest freezers are really cheap right now.
Its also only November, I haven't even pressed any apples yet. See if you can get some late season, tree-ripened apples in your area, make some more cider and next spring, do some blending. I usually start rounding up apples in late October, and November, let them ripen some more and press in late November, early December. I've pressed end of the season apples as late as January. You could also hunt around for a late season blend already pressed from a local orchard. Ferment that and do some blending trials when you notice your apple trees blooming in the spring.

Ordinarily, I'd agree with you except the other 31 gallons are doing exactly what they should be, taste coming along, etc. This batch, I used a very different yeast and it is flat, watery, ZERO taste, insipid, etc... I understand how things mellow with age, but something strange went on with this batch...

And I still need help with the above kegging questions . Thanks!

 

[madscientist451]

What yeast stripped all the taste out?
What temperature did you run the fermentation?
I'm always up for experimenting with additives, but I'm also skeptical that adding stuff to a cider you don't like and then kegging it warm is going to result in something you want to drink.
When your other batches are done, the cider with minimal taste may come in handy for blending. Another option is adding oak. Blending cider "in the glass" with beer is something I've been doing for the last few years.

 

[Corey Fish]

It was Imperial Yeast Dieter. All batches fermented at 62 to 64 F. This was also the only batch to form a huge Krausen and bubble up into the airlock a bit.

The other issue is that now 1 month post fermentation start, this is also the only batch to develop a Pellicle. The pellicle is clean, the white fuzzy bubble kind, so remains to be seen whether it is “good” or “bad” infection yet.

This is why I’m not that keen on blending with it.

I’ve added an oak honeycomb stick but I kinda want to keep this batch isolated and prefer to use it to experiment.

I do appreciate the help for sure. If you have any advice on how to accomplish the kegging thing I’d be grateful. I’m also fine to just try to figure it out too I guess.

 

[acidrain]

Keep it under higher pressures for your carb volumes, then when you serve it, just turn down the pressure? You will need to purge the head space of Co2, which is wasteful.
The other option is to use insanely long serving lines. I've never had good luck using any kind of restrictor or adjustable faucet.

 

[Corey Fish]

Thanks for this, I actually ended up figuring this out on my own. What I did was use 24 psi, about 2.5 volumes at my temp and then use 6 feet of 3/16 line at 2.8 psi per foot resistance. With the keg on the floor and me holding the faucet in hand that gives a serving pressure of right around 5 psi. Seems to be working fine with the intended outcome. Prob go through gas quicker but a local welding supply fills for 10 bucks on a 5 pound tank so...