Keezer lid question - replace the freezer lid

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I'm in the early stages of planning a keezer build and got to wondering...is there any advantage or disadvantage to completely replacing the freezer lid with a homebuild one?

I was considering building a complete frame - including the top - out of 2x2 lumber with a fairly high R-value insulation between the frame members. I could put in a piece of 2x4 in the frame for a mounting location for the taps and sheath the entire assembly in 1/4" plywood.

Has anyone else done something similar? If so, how did it go? Any problems? Any advantages?
 
I think the biggest disadvantage would be the extra work and the fact that the lid would not match the body of the keezer. Unless you are planning on framing in entire keezer with wood or something. Other than that I can't see why it can't be done. I don't think chest freezers have a ton of insulation in the lids as most of the cold air within them does not want to rise up.

The advantage that I can see to building one would be that you could most likely make it work however you want with the hinge. Also it may look more polished when it's all said and done as far as the transition between the lid and the collar.
 
sounds to me like you are going to be making a very heavy lid. I would question is the springs on the hinges could hold up that much weight.

IMHO the insulation in the factory lid is much better than the insulating value of 2x4 lumber. I would just construct a collar and put a skin on the existing lid if you are going for a different finished look.
 
I think the biggest disadvantage would be the extra work and the fact that the lid would not match the body of the keezer. Unless you are planning on framing in entire keezer with wood or something. Other than that I can't see why it can't be done. I don't think chest freezers have a ton of insulation in the lids as most of the cold air within them does not want to rise up.

The advantage that I can see to building one would be that you could most likely make it work however you want with the hinge. Also it may look more polished when it's all said and done as far as the transition between the lid and the collar.

I don't think there'll be that much extra work since the design I'm thinking about uses square cut 2x2 lumber for the frame. An 8-10 inch piece of 2x4 will give me a solid mounting place for the taps. Cut foam insulation in all the open spaces and a 1/4" plywood skin. I may get a wood-working buddy of mine to miter cut the plywood since that will look neater.

I want to put a wrapper or skin on the freezer body so it's not so obviously an appliance. I"ll space it out about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch for air circulation. I need to make the finished product look at least somewhat furniture-like so that I can put it in the family room. Either that or SWMBO will make me keep it in the basement which means heading downstairs whenever I want a beer.
 
sounds to me like you are going to be making a very heavy lid. I would question is the springs on the hinges could hold up that much weight.

IMHO the insulation in the factory lid is much better than the insulating value of 2x4 lumber. I would just construct a collar and put a skin on the existing lid if you are going for a different finished look.

The frame will be 2x2 lumber, not 2x4. I'm thinking about a 2x4 block to run the shanks through. The frame will be a skeleton construction with the dead space filled with cut foam insulation. The weight shouldn't be that great the the R factor should be much better than plain wood.
 
Have you thought about putting the keezer in the basement and running chilled lines to your dispensing point? That way you do not take up much floor space and you may keep swmbo happy.

If the run is a reasonable length, you can chil the lines with a fan to push chilled air from the keezer... There are some good post discussing these tyes of designs.
 
Have you thought about putting the keezer in the basement and running chilled lines to your dispensing point? That way you do not take up much floor space and you may keep swmbo happy.

If the run is a reasonable length, you can chil the lines with a fan to push chilled air from the keezer... There are some good post discussing these tyes of designs.

I wouldn't mind doing that but I rent and my Landlord, the Lutheran Church next door, would probably say, "No". :)
 
Two questions, can you access the HVAC vents from the basement? Are the first floor vents in the floor? I think you see where i am going.

Get some foil duct tape to seal the hole you will need to cut... Seal it after installation, and then again after you remove the system before you move out.
 
I was going to ditch my stock freezer lid and build my own, until I just decided to work with the stock lid. I'll use liquid nails and glue my granite tile to the top, front, and sides of the lid.

-=Jason=-
 
I plan to eventually replace the lid on mine, but haven't gotten around to it. I have my taps mounted on a collar, but want to replace that and put the taps in a "coffin" box tower. I plan to build the lid as a torsion box, with a grid of 1/2" plywood pieces on edge forming the framework, and a skin of 1/2" plywood. I plan to put Styrofoam in the gaps of the grid. The top and bottom sheets of plywood can just be glued down with Titebond or Elmers yellow glue. Brads will hold it until the glue dries, unless you have lots of clamps and cauls. I've used these torsion boxes elsewhere. They make a remarkably rigid and fairly light structure that should work well as a lid. If you are going to attach hinges, put some extra wood into the grid at the attachment points. I'll probably put 1/4" luaun on top as "veneer", with several coats of polyurethane, unless I get lazy and just put down Formica. Tile would be nice, but heavy. I suspect a torsion box would do better with this load than the stock lid.

You do need access to a fairly accurate table saw to rip pieces of uniform width for making the grid. Finding straight 1x2's that are of sufficiently uniform width for this application is pretty optimistic. That's why I use plywood.
 
I plan to eventually replace the lid on mine, but haven't gotten around to it. I have my taps mounted on a collar, but want to replace that and put the taps in a "coffin" box tower. I plan to build the lid as a torsion box, with a grid of 1/2" plywood pieces on edge forming the framework, and a skin of 1/2" plywood. I plan to put Styrofoam in the gaps of the grid. The top and bottom sheets of plywood can just be glued down with Titebond or Elmers yellow glue. Brads will hold it until the glue dries, unless you have lots of clamps and cauls. I've used these torsion boxes elsewhere. They make a remarkably rigid and fairly light structure that should work well as a lid. If you are going to attach hinges, put some extra wood into the grid at the attachment points. I'll probably put 1/4" luaun on top as "veneer", with several coats of polyurethane, unless I get lazy and just put down Formica. Tile would be nice, but heavy. I suspect a torsion box would do better with this load than the stock lid.

You do need access to a fairly accurate table saw to rip pieces of uniform width for making the grid. Finding straight 1x2's that are of sufficiently uniform width for this application is pretty optimistic. That's why I use plywood.

What you are calling a torsion box, I refer to as a diaphragm type design. Same thing though. I built a platform bed a few years ago using the same technique. The queen sized bed is supported only by the four 2 X 2 corner legs and nothing else. There is near zero deflection in the center even when supporting two full size adults. That's how strong this design is, yet is is very light weight. The top and bottom diaphragms are mere 1/4" plywood and there are five longitudinal 1 x 4 stringers which function as the webs of the diaphragm.

I think that you could lighten up your design using thinner material for both the bottom skin and the plywood "grid". The underside skin could be thin 1/8" luan plywood. The plywood "grid" pieces could be lighter solid pine 1 X material much like the stringers I used for the bed. You should be able to find some select clear pine for this that will be acceptably uniform. The same for your 2 x 2 frame. You won't need a lot of lumber, so I would buy select material. You will probably want to keep the top thickness at 1/4" minimum simply for durability, but you may also consider something like "butcher block" laminated pine for this. I'm making a top for my freezer out of that, but it will only be a slab top attached to the stock lid. I already have a collar installed, but I would like to have a wood top. My serving freezer is in my kitchen and I use the top as additional counter space. Anyway, IMO the diaphragm idea is very cool. I'm always amazed that this concept is not see more frequently in DIY projects.

Ya know, this got me to thinking that you could use the rigid foam insulation as the separator and glue the plywood skins directly to it which would entirely eliminate the plywood spacer blocks or the stringers that I used. Simply gluing the plywood directly to the foam should work really well and it would be extremely light weight. You would still want to build a perimeter frame, but that could be 1 X material instead of 2 x 2. I want to see your finished project. Be sure to post some pics.
 
Two questions, can you access the HVAC vents from the basement? Are the first floor vents in the floor? I think you see where i am going.

Get some foil duct tape to seal the hole you will need to cut... Seal it after installation, and then again after you remove the system before you move out.

We don't have a forced air system. It's all gas, hot water.
 
The torsion box label is not original with me. It is a woodworking/furniture making term for these. I learned it in a Fine Woodworking magazine article several years ago.

If the "skin" of the box is not subjected to much load, the 1/4" plywood should be fine for that. I am partial to plywood for the grid, as it is more stable through seasonal humidity cycles. If you can get straight grained pine or fir, you can do okay. Finding straight grain in 1x2s at the local big box stores takes persistence and some luck. If the grain curves through the wood, you may find that your nice flat top in the winter becomes an arch or a cup in summer, with corresponding sealing problems for your new keezer lid.

I would be surprised if the rigid foam gives you the results you want without a wood grid. There is a lot of strength in the shear resistance of the length of the glue lines in the grid. I would not bank on the foam I have seen offering much resistance before it shears away, delaminating under load. This would leave you with a sagging/cupping lid. There may be foam out there with the necessary strength that I have not encountered. There just is not much strength to the stuff I have put into walls.
 
The torsion box label is not original with me. It is a woodworking/furniture making term for these. I learned it in a Fine Woodworking magazine article several years ago.

If the "skin" of the box is not subjected to much load, the 1/4" plywood should be fine for that. I am partial to plywood for the grid, as it is more stable through seasonal humidity cycles. If you can get straight grained pine or fir, you can do okay. Finding straight grain in 1x2s at the local big box stores takes persistence and some luck. If the grain curves through the wood, you may find that your nice flat top in the winter becomes an arch or a cup in summer, with corresponding sealing problems for your new keezer lid.

I would be surprised if the rigid foam gives you the results you want without a wood grid. There is a lot of strength in the shear resistance of the length of the glue lines in the grid. I would not bank on the foam I have seen offering much resistance before it shears away, delaminating under load. This would leave you with a sagging/cupping lid. There may be foam out there with the necessary strength that I have not encountered. There just is not much strength to the stuff I have put into walls.

Yes, on further thought I must agree that the foam alone probably would not work well at all. Plywood, no doubt, would be much more dimensionally stable than any solid lumber. The skins should resist any warping of the box if they are properly glued to the stringers or grid. That's really what makes this type of design work so well. Yeah, it can be challenging and often impossible to find high grade stock at the big box stores.
 
The torsion box label is not original with me. It is a woodworking/furniture making term for these. I learned it in a Fine Woodworking magazine article several years ago.

If the "skin" of the box is not subjected to much load, the 1/4" plywood should be fine for that. I am partial to plywood for the grid, as it is more stable through seasonal humidity cycles. If you can get straight grained pine or fir, you can do okay. Finding straight grain in 1x2s at the local big box stores takes persistence and some luck. If the grain curves through the wood, you may find that your nice flat top in the winter becomes an arch or a cup in summer, with corresponding sealing problems for your new keezer lid.

I would be surprised if the rigid foam gives you the results you want without a wood grid. There is a lot of strength in the shear resistance of the length of the glue lines in the grid. I would not bank on the foam I have seen offering much resistance before it shears away, delaminating under load. This would leave you with a sagging/cupping lid. There may be foam out there with the necessary strength that I have not encountered. There just is not much strength to the stuff I have put into walls.

I hadn't considered using 1/2" or larger plywood for the structural members but it makes sense. Wooden I-Beams carry a heavier load and warp much less than similar dimensional lumber.

I don't know that it'll be necessary for my project though. The freezer I'm going to be using is on the small size - only 7.2 cu ft. Allowing a 3/4 inch overhang in the front and on the sides to accommodate a raised skin on the actual freezer, the longest 2x2 member will only be 35 1/2" long. I'm planning on using Select grade 2x2s with 1/4" plywood as a skin both inside and outside fastened with both brads and glue. I'm not planning on the insulation adding anything to the design structurally. I'll be relying on the plywood to help keep the 2x2s straight.

I chose this route because of both my tools and my woodworking skills - or lack of both. My personal geekery runs more to computers and networks than cabinetry but I have and can use a miter box to square cut 2x2 lumber.

I'll knock together a quick design in SketchUp and either post the image or a link so you can get a better idea of what I'm considering.
 
Here's a picture of what I have in mind. I plan on putting a skin of 1/4" plywood inside and out with insulation filling the voids. The local HomeDepot has 1/2" thick R-3.3 insulation. 3 layers of that cut to fit should be close to the R-value of the original lid.

I'm planning on the lid overhanging the front and sides by 3/4" to match up with a raised skin on the freezer body - more 1/4" plywood over a 1/2" air gap although that may change if I have to put a fan in to move the air. The lid will mount flush with the back of the freezer to keep me from having to adjust the hinge mounting. This may also change since it wouldn't be that difficult remount the hinges offset slightly on plywood blocks.

Anyway, that's it so far. I'm at least 2-3 months away from building this so I have plenty of time to make changes. Please feel free to poke holes in my design and ideas. If I've missed something let me know. If I've made any bad assumptions or any design errors let me know that, too.

I've got a couple of months at least to plan this out so if I have to scrap the whole design and start over it's no big deal.

KeezerLid.jpg
 
your frame.

I'd build the 4 corners vertical post like you have your center posts. inside the bottom and upper framing.

-=Jason=-
 
Is there an advantage to doing it that way? Other than having all the vertical posts be the same length, I mean?

im not an engineer, but it would easier to have as many cuts the same length s possible. also when framing up houses they do not build walls like that. yeah I know this is only a keezer lid, but you do have the option of doing it the correct way.

-=Jason=-
 
Have you thought about putting the keezer in the basement and running chilled lines to your dispensing point? That way you do not take up much floor space and you may keep swmbo happy.

If the run is a reasonable length, you can chil the lines with a fan to push chilled air from the keezer... There are some good post discussing these tyes of designs.

How far can you run chilled beer lines like this? How thick would they be? This might be a major solution to an idea I've been kicking-around.
 
How far can you run chilled beer lines like this? How thick would they be? This might be a major solution to an idea I've been kicking-around.

running lines any further than to a coffin or tower is going to required some type in insulated cold air or Glycol system to keep beer that is sitting in the line between the keg and tap cold.

-=Jason=-
 
How far can you run chilled beer lines like this? How thick would they be? This might be a major solution to an idea I've been kicking-around.

I would use quarter inch. You have to keep them chilled though. Sort runs can be chilled with cold air from the keezer.
 
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