Keezer in Basement, Taps Upstairs? Possible?

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CandyGram4Mongo

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Hello,
I have been lurking here for sometime, and absorbing all the information, so thanks in advance for any assistance.

I have tried searching and cannot find anything that references this type of build.

Basically, I want to put a keezer in my basement, and run my tap lines up through the wall and out of the wall in my kitchen, and have 1-3 taps coming out of my kitchen wall, above my counter. Is this possible? A good idea? The total run of tubing from keezer to tap would be about 7-8 feet.

I guess I would have to insulate the line to keep the temperature in the line when not in use, but if I used the kind of insulation that keeps my freon line for my a/c cold, would that work?

Is this just a terrible idea?

Thanks again,
 

45_70sharps

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The problem that I see is the temperature. Insulating isn't going to help when the first couple drafts of the day are pulled from any tap. The temperature will climb after a while. If anything you would need to do like a good tower and have an insulated tube with the lines in them that cold air is pushed through.

The other problem is pushing it eight or ten feet up. That is going to take pressure and in order to have that much pressure you may have over carb'd beer.

The other problem I see as possible is that you could waste a bit of beer every time the keg goes dry. You might get too much gas mixed with the beer when it's not being pushed by beer anymore and get a line full of foam.

I do like the idea of taps in the kitchen. I would rather have them in the living room if I were doing it though!
 

tprokop

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I've got got a setup pretty close to what you're talking about. Keezer with collar in the basement, 2" PVC insulated with steam pipe insulation, 4 taps run with 3/16" glass lined PE. I've got a blower and a 1" hose that provides cold air to a box I built/insulated/air sealed in my kitchen wall (lucky for me, the backside of this wall is my basement staircase). I'll attach a few pictures so you can see my setup, but here are a few things I learned that will hopefully save you some time and money:

- You need glass lined PE tubing because of the rise. You can't use PVC because it's too fat when you get low enough resistance.
- You need a blower, no fan will work.
- Blower must run all the time (not on ranco) and can't be at the top of the keezer
- Grainger sells the same blower as micromatic for less than half the cost
- You can't use flow control perlicks (all foam)


Let me know if you have any questions about my setup, I'm sure I'm forgetting things.

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tprokop

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Sorry should mention that one of those taps is for soda water (uses flow control perlick and PE tubing all the way to the keg). The other three use PE tubing from the tap to the collar, then I have a barb x 1/4" MFL and can swap 3'-6' lengths of 3/16" PVC on as needed for the carb level of the beer I'm serving.

There are also two taps in the basement, you can see the PVC tubing lying on top of the kegs that go to those.
 
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CandyGram4Mongo

CandyGram4Mongo

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That is fantastic!
My area where I want the taps backs to my basement stairs as well....but I JUST FINISHED MY BASEMENT....what a pisser.

I could easily open a section of the wall and put the taps in.

Let me ask a few questions, as I am a newbie.

What is PE Tubing?
What blower from Grainger? Ironically, I am also looking for a blower to draw cool air into my fireplace, into a steel tube, through the embers, and blow hot air back to the room.
But back to my homebrew questions...

What do you mean by "flow control Perlicks?" The ones with the little knob/lever on the side to control things? Do regular Perlicks work?

What is the depth of your perlicks that are in the wall? Could I seal the wall up on the backside of them?
Thanks!
 

tprokop

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PE = polyethelyene (http://www.farmhousebrewingsupply.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=300)

Blower I think is this one http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/DAYTON-PSC-Blower-1TDN2?Pid=search

Exactly right on the perlick, flow control = 545PC My 525SS work great, but I need to adjust the tubing length in the keezer to balance the system for each beer.

Depth will depend on your shank, you could likely get them to be <3" from the front face of the wall to the back of the bent tailpiece with some effort. I had some extra room because I have 5/8" drywall (not common for walls) and full dimension (actually 4" x 2") studs because my house was built in 1905.

I do not think you would want to seal the wall behind them, but that's just me. You'd need access to replace lines if you wanted to do that... If it were me I'd figure out a way to put some sort of access panel there (could be screw on/off or something more permanent than mine I guess). Wife doesn't mind mine because (1) she has soda water on tap and (2) it was my reward for the gut reno of the kitchen.
 

bmick

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I've got got a setup pretty close to what you're talking about. Keezer with collar in the basement, 2" PVC insulated with steam pipe insulation, 4 taps run with 3/16" glass lined PE. I've got a blower and a 1" hose that provides cold air to a box I built/insulated/air sealed in my kitchen wall (lucky for me, the backside of this wall is my basement staircase). I'll attach a few pictures so you can see my setup, but here are a few things I learned that will hopefully save you some time and money:

- You need glass lined PE tubing because of the rise. You can't use PVC because it's too fat when you get low enough resistance.
- You need a blower, no fan will work.
- Blower must run all the time (not on ranco) and can't be at the top of the keezer
- Grainger sells the same blower as micromatic for less than half the cost
- You can't use flow control perlicks (all foam)


Let me know if you have any questions about my setup, I'm sure I'm forgetting things.
Well this is awesome. Question though: the blower is bringing cold air to the box behind your kitchen wall, but the lines running to that box are just insulated, not cooled, correct? Doesn't this still result in a warm, foamy first pour?
 

tprokop

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The blower pushes cold air from the keezer up into the box, and the air flows back down into the keezer thru the PVC. Since the four lines and the 1" blower hose take up just abouth than half of the cross sectional area of the PVC, there is space in there that allows the cool air to flow down from the box thru the PVC into the keezer. This keeps the lines relatively cool.

Based on my temp testing, I don't keep the beer in there quite as cold as in the freezer itself, but it's close enough that I get <1" of head on my first pour. With a larger blower or discrete up/down pipes I could likely do better, but 1" is within my tolerance so I stopped revising when I got to my current setup.
 

BadNewsBrewery

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For the cooling aspect, you could also try going the route of the pond-pump DIY glycol system. Not sure if you could find a cheap enough pump to handle the elevation you were trying to pump, but they sell insulated bundles of beer line (not sure if PVC or PE) with glycol lines in it, or you could make your own. Might keep it cooler in a smaller cross section, though tprokop seems to have achieved basically the same results without issue - just another way to skin the cat.
 

3RiverBrewer

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It is very possible as I have it :)

I have about 8 feet of non chilled line that runs from my basement to my kitchen and I have no issues what so ever.

The 2 main worries are foaming and your beer being warm. What I did was get an insulated tube around the beer lines and lowered my chest freezer to about 38F. When I get a beer I don't have any issue with foaming and I don't have to throw any of the beer away becasue the warm beer in the line is countered by the cold beer in the fridge being slighter colder than where I like my beer temp (42F). I was told I was going to run into some foaming problems but that just hasn't been the case for me. I will post some pictures of my set up when I get home (at work now) but I really don't think you should have any problem with this.
 

RSNovi

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Great thread. I have a 3' run and always have to poor a third of a pint out every beer except back to back pours.

I have a 2" PVC loop with a fan and it doesn't work well enough. I have been thinking about the box with a blower. I have easy access to the back of the wall for the shanks and could redo it.

I think my main problem is the warm faucet. A quick poor gets it down to temp and the rest is good.
 

swanwick

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Oxynostu

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I'm attempting a similar build myself, just wrote a post the other day here:


Sounds like some people really know what they're doing, would love some advice, or if you ended up building it let me know what you learned. Thanks!
 

RSNovi

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I had a setup where I had my keezer on the other side of the wall of my taps. I used PVC and a blower to try and keep the taps cold. I probably had about 6’ of PVC. I finally was able to get a good pour, but the biggest problem was the condensation that would freeze in the keezer. The kegs would get frozen in. Since moving homes I have the taps right on the freezer. Much better.

I think I would recommend looking into liquid cooling circulation.
 

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