Keeping mash temp <160F during dough in = huge efficiency boost!

[Jayhem]

I finally did it! High efficiency mash on an all-grain big beer! OG: 1.087 Previously I could never break 85%. This time I hit 91%!

I use a cooler mash tun and since I do not preheat the cooler my strike water goes in at 175F! Then I usually add my milled grains to the tun directly into the hot strike water and stir in. It can take 5 minutes to stir in 28 lbs of grain on a big beer!

This time around I added grains and had a helper add the strike water in equal parts to keep around 1.2 qt/lb in the tun. By doing this the mash temp stayed at <160F during dough in and then held at 153F for a 90 min mash. The efficiency boost was obvious compared to the last several big beers I've done!

Just wanted to share. It really does make a difference! Add your strike water and grains in equal parts, don't shock the grains by adding them directly to hot strike water!

 

[masonsjax]

Out of curiosity, why don't you preheat? Just add the water at 180F, let it sit until it hits your calculated strike temp. Easy peasy.

Congrats on the efficiency, that's quite good.

 

[broadbill]

I have to say I am unclear on what exactly about the process change in responsible for the increased efficiency.

Isn't mixing all the grain with all of the water result in the same temperature changes that does mixing some of the grain with some of the water?

If the idea that keeping the temp below 160 increase efficiency...than wouldn't adding all of the grain to the MT followed by the water have a similar effect? Does it?

Maybe I'm not following the logic here.

 

[Jayhem]

I have to say I am unclear on what exactly about the process change in responsible for the increased efficiency.

Isn't mixing all the grain with all of the water result in the same temperature changes that does mixing some of the grain with some of the water?

If the idea that keeping the temp below 160 increase efficiency...than wouldn't adding all of the grain to the MT followed by the water have a similar effect? Does it?

Maybe I'm not following the logic here.

The logic is that if you add 70F grain to 180F strike water the first 20,30 maybe even 50% of the grain comes into contact with water that is 170-180F for as long as it takes you to get 50% of the grain doughed in which is hot enough to start to denature the enzymes in the milled grain and prevent full conversion. If you add a small amount of water and grain the temp quickly averages out into the 155-160F range in <30 seconds.

I don't know what to say other than this is the only thing in my process that changed and I logged a huge bump in efficiency.

 

[broadbill]

Have you reproduced this efficiency bump, or was it a one-time thing?

Your logic assumes it is the conversion efficiency (versus lauter efficiency) that is affected here. It is usually assumed conversion efficiency is near/at 100% so the question becomes why isn't it for your system? Crush is a big factor in this...has something changed there?

Perhaps, by doing smaller amounts you are getting better mixing water and grain; and that in turns affects your efficiency?

This would be the first time I've heard of enzyme denaturation as being a cause of poor efficiency. Today's malts are so highly modified, it is hard to believe this could be a factor. Hence my interest.

 

[EarlyAmateurZymurgist]

I mash-in by adding just enough hot liquor to cover the false bottom in my mash tun before adding the entire grist charge. I then carefully add hot liquor, allowing each hot liquor addition to saturate the grain bed before adding the next addition. It's the way I have mashed since brewing my first all-grain beer in the early nineties. The benefit of slowly adding hot liquor to grist instead of dumping the entire grist charge on top of the entire strike hot liquor charge is even wetting of the grain, resulting in fewer dough balls. Dough balls are efficiency killers.

 

[Jayhem]

Have you reproduced this efficiency bump, or was it a one-time thing?

Your logic assumes it is the conversion efficiency (versus lauter efficiency) that is affected here. It is usually assumed conversion efficiency is near/at 100% so the question becomes why isn't it for your system? Crush is a big factor in this...has something changed there?

Perhaps, by doing smaller amounts you are getting better mixing water and grain; and that in turns affects your efficiency?

This would be the first time I've heard of enzyme denaturation as being a cause of poor efficiency. Today's malts are so highly modified, it is hard to believe this could be a factor. Hence my interest.

I'm open to any and all discussion.

No, I have not repeated this with the same results but my process is dialed in at this point and this was the only thing that changed. Same milling process, same water, same equipment, same temperatures, same sparge (batch sparge in 2 steps), etc.

I do not believe dough balls were ever a problem. I stir very well with a stainless wisk as I dough in the grains and they fully saturate uniformly. I also stir every 15 minutes during mashing.

Like I said, I changed something in my process, noticed an increased extract efficiency and decided to share. Open to all discussion. I enjoy improving my technique any chance I get.

 

[EarlyAmateurZymurgist]

My money is on micro dough balls, not denaturing. Regardless of how well a brewer stirs, adding grist to hot liquor almost always results in dough balls forming in the mash. The problem is compounded when a brewer has his/her mill set for a relatively fine crush. What you did simulated what occurs in a professional brew house. The reason why professional brewers mix grist with hot liquor going into their mash tuns is to prevent/minimize the formation of dough balls. It takes longer than the time that you spend mashing-in to denature the enzymes in a mash.